Selling Principles with Dave Mattson

Reading Time: 26 Minutes

Are you ready to improve your closing rate for your sales appointments? As CEO of Sandler Training, Dave Mattson is a master of sales. In this interview he shares many of his best tips to help you up your sales game.

After the Interview

About Dave Mattson

Dave oversees the corporate strategy for Sandler Training’s global operations including sales, marketing, consulting, alliances and support. He recently adapted the classic sales book, The Sandler Rules: 49 Timeless Selling Principles and How to Apply Them.

Dave Mattson recently adapted the classic sales book, The Sandler Rules: 49 Timeless Selling Principles and How to Apply Them and oversees the corporate strategy for Sandler Training’s global operations.

Read the Transcript

This transcript was auto-generated from the original video recording using Otter Voice Meeting Notes. While the transcript has not been human edited, we hope it will still help you to quickly find or reference useful information from the interview.

Unknown Speaker  0:06 

Deliberate Leaders I am your host Allison Dunn, Owner, Executive Business Coach here at Deliberate Directions and Deliberate Leaders Podcast founder, where we bring you inspiring interviews to help you on your leadership journey. Today our guest is Dave Mattson. He is the CEO of Sandler Training. He oversees the corporate strategy for the company’s global operations, including sales, marketing, consulting, alliances and support. He recently adapted the classic sales book The Sandler Rules 49, timeless selling principles and how to apply them. I have to admit, I just realized you also have authored your own book called The Road to Success. And I’m gonna let you finish the title on that because it was good, but I didn’t capture it.


Maybe the organizational excellence yeah, yeah, that’s for the entrepreneurial marketplace. The playbook taking from where you are to where you want to be.


Awesome day. Thank you so much for joining us here today on Deliberate Leaders.


My pleasure. Thanks for having me.


My pleasure. I like to kick off all of my podcasts and with a deliberate conversation. I would love to ask you what would be your number one leadership tip that you would give to our listeners today?


A congruency, what does that mean? So to me, that means oftentimes we give our people direction, or we set rules or policies, even little things like hey, you should be on time for meetings, but yet sometimes leaders aren’t because we get to get a jail card free because of our title. And I think people listen to what you say but they’re also going to watch what you do. And you should model what you want everyone else to be doing. not sending a memo telling them and then doing what you always do. And then blaming you know the environment on why things are you were late or this or that. So I would say concurrency


You are my first interview who is used to that word. And I love that word. It’s one of my favorites. And it’s one of those things that I consistently say, am I being congruent with when I’m coaching people to do? My being concurrent what I’m expecting people to do? So kindred spirits on that work. That’s it. Thank you very much. So you succeeded the original founder, which is David Sandler, correct?


Yes, he passed in 1994.


Okay. Um, now, that’s been a long time, goodness. And it’s amazing that the organization has still continued to thrive. So he must have done a fantastic job setting up the organization to serve thrive past 10 for sure.


Yeah, well, he had 200 well, we have offices so you know, there are 265 of them, but in our world and the training world. It’s rare actually that the company continues and thrives after the founder most of the time when the, the, you know, the head person that wrote all the material passes, the companies tend to kind of just dwindle off, but Sandler set it up where that would never happen because he was never the icon of the business. Right? He made the content number one, and he made the offices, the spotlight versus himself. So it was a he was a genius.


It’s an admirable model. So you’ve been the CEO since 2007. Is that correct?


Yes. Okay.


Yes. What has been your mission since you’ve assumed leadership?


Well, for me, it’s a couple different things. One is to elevate the brand. So we train more people. Last year we trained 31,000 people as an example. We’ve been winning tons of awards. But yet, not that many people knew us. So since 2007, elevate the brand, also content. So we expand that our content versus just the Sandler selling system. Now you’ve got programs for every customer facing individual that generates revenue, even the new roles called customer success. So we have all that now. So I think that has been a mission to expand our, in our view, and then to really build strong offices. I mean, that would be my third. So to really build strong offices around the world, which we’ve successfully done. We’re in 31 countries now.


31 countries and how many offices?




  1. And that is super impressive. I’m just super curious what’s the most important thing that you spend your time doing on a day to day basis?


Connecting dots really.


You know, I’m not a micromanager. So my thing is, let’s all agree on a path. Whatever that path is, let’s get the guardrails. So everybody knows what their role is. And you know what they’re supposed to be doing with some check ins along the way. So knowing shocked that things are off track, we didn’t know about it. And really what I end up doing is two things. One, how can I help you? And I’m always asking, How can I help you? I’m probably doing, you know, their job. Not really, but I’m helping them on their projects throughout the day. And then connecting dots because is you look down from the strategic perspective. Sometimes the people that are doing the day to day they’ve got these blinders on, right? They know where their work fits in the overall project, but they haven’t really thought about, Well, wait a minute, now I could connect it to this particular project, or this particular issue, and then it would be even better and Most of the times they do but from my perspective, I have the ability to stay third party, not get sucked in, but really just look at it from 30,000 feet and say, if we connected these three things, you’d be way ahead of the curve. And that’s really what I do.


I’m one of so I have had Sandler Training in my past life. And the key things that I remember, or at least my big takeaway from the training was is that people make decisions emotionally and then justify it intellectually. And that being a really important implication when we’re working through a sales process or solutions process. So give us a couple of examples of how people do that. And maybe even why did we do that?


Well, yeah, so let’s talk about the way I think most people we let me start off I think If I give you a quick example, let’s do a car because everyone buys a car. If I had a car that works, and I liked that car that I saw drive by, and I said, You know what, I’m gonna get that car, would I go out that day and get it? Maybe not. I’ve probably shopped around, they probably second guess myself and I probably would get it but it would be in the future. But if my car broke down, and I said, Oh, my gosh, I need a car. Chances are I would have a car by the end of the day, because the pain of I didn’t have a car was far greater than I want something better. So and you can just fill in the blanks for any example of how that’s true. When it comes to sales people. Unfortunately, some salespeople just kind of show up and throw up all their product knowledge, like look how fast this is how great this is, which is great, but that’s all intellectual. What you’ve got to be paying attention to is Alright, what does that solve? Right? So does it solve a pain that they’re experiencing? If I do, that’s great. If not, then let’s just skip it. So I think those are the things that are really from a sales perspective, you’ve got to go in not thinking about your product or service, but really thinking about what are the top three or four things that my prospect would have to say they’re having problems with, for me to say, boom, that’s a prospect for me. So for instance, I could say I’ve got the greatest online training program of all time. Who cares, really, but if they say, Hey, listen, you know, my reps are negotiating the way the margin like 90% of the time. So, you know, we don’t we can’t we can’t afford to expand over here. I can’t do this over here. Well, chances are, they’re going to buy that a lot faster, because they’re not going to be caring about my super cool online training. They’re going to be more worried about how do I help my people not negotiate away margin. So and now here’s the thing. Once you figure out What are those tops three or four things? That’s how you start your sales call. What you do you start your sales call by saying, look, we haven’t worked together in the past. But when I’m with owners like yourself, oftentimes they complain about, and then I throw them out, boom, you know, negotiating margin, longer selling cycles, and they’d like, and I throw them out there. And I see if they say, Hey, I’m having one of those. I have that issue. And then we can start and we go down what we call the pain funnel. But to me, that’s a much better consultative, conversational way to approach it versus here’s my PowerPoint. You know, yeah, sit down, trap yourself and get Velcro because you’re going to need this. It’s gonna be a long one. And then 800 you know, slides later, we get to, so what do you think? And I don’t think that does it.


And another one of the rules that I know Sandler teaches is never to spill your candy in the lobby. Can you explain to our listeners, what does that mean?


So, Ammar used the analogy, when you go into a movie, and you buy, you know, the candy, and you spilled it all over the lobby, you actually never got it into the theater, right? And so in the sales world, that analogy happened when you spill your candy in the lobby where you have no idea what their issues are, you have no idea what their decision making process is, you have no idea what their budget constraints are. But yet you start the product pitch, right? You’re gonna go in and tell them how wonderful your company is and how wonderful your product is. And that’s spilling your candy in the lobby. Because you didn’t even you know, product knowledge is use once you have a qualified prospect, not to establish credibility. And I think that’s where people get messed up. Because a lot of people feel more comfortable talking about product than they do about Tell me about your issue. They get very uncomfortable with that, but that’s the fastest way oo get a sale to progressive the funnel, so I’ve had over many decades and people really spill their candy. And I’m not I’m not in the market, I’m not buying I’m not interested. And now I’m really turned off by it is that they’ve positioned.


Now, if you’re buying though, Allison, that’s the greatest thing of all time, because you know, they’re gonna spill the candy lobby. So you might as well just start is, this is super cool. Can you tell me about that? All they heard is buyer buyer and I’m thinking free consulting, free consulting, free consulting.


Very true. So what is the most important or what is what is a great question to what’s the first question that we should be asking our prospect as opposed to trying to sell them something?


Well, the first question, I think you should set the stage right. If you remember from the training, I think the upfront contract is probably what we should be doing first, and which we can talk about if you want but I think it’s worthwhile to cover.


Okay. So here’s what listen, let’s let me talk to the sellers. If you probably have the following issues at some point in time, you shut up in a meeting, you started blowing and going. And some people in the room had no idea what the agenda was, because maybe they were invited in or maybe they put it in the calendar 30 days ahead of time. They don’t remember your name. Well, that so that happens, or you thought you had an hour and you’re doing your thing. prospect looks down. Crazy day, crazy day. What you’re saying, though, is interesting. Could you put that in writing? Send it to us, and I’ll socialize it? Well, wait a minute. Now. I just got cut off by 40 minutes. Right? You didn’t know you got surprised? Or you’re so worried about your agenda, that you realize that the prospect didn’t get theirs on the on the table, right, because you were talking too much. The last big one is there’s no clear next steps. So if we all have those issues where now you’re chasing you’ve ever been chasing after a great call, you’re like what am i stalker? Why am I doing Chasing? Well, you could take care of that through what we call the upfront contract. There’s five elements one, in the first minute or two, right? I mean, we’ve done a rapport, we’re talking. And then I would always say, you know, Allison, it’s been a while since we’ve talked on the phone. Today, the purpose of today was x. And I tell them right there. Now, hopefully, I’ve jogged your memory. But if there’s somebody else in the room, they’ve heard it for the first time, you can see it on their faces, like, okay, and sometimes they’re even saying, Why am I here? Like, why am I here? And I’ll even stop. Sounds like, you may be surprised. But yeah, so and I’m now dealing with this real quick, right? Because they may not know time. We talked about 60 minutes on the phone.


That’s still good. I know things are crazy. Is that still good? You still have that time set aside? You could say yes or no. If you say, No, things are really crazy. You can only have 30 minutes, at least I know before I start, right and then I can adjust my lifestyle. But if you say no, it’s good. you’re less likely to say, you know, in the call, hey, gotta go. I’ve tried, you know, trapped you away, you can’t do it now. So I’ve established that. The next thing I would do is to say, Look, I know time is precious, we haven’t worked together, there’s two or three things that you want to make sure that I cover about what we do, how we do it, who we do it for, or anything before we leave today. And so I just start jotting that down. Why do I want to know that? Well, I want to know that because sales is the conversation, and the buyer is not going to start listening until they know that you’re going to deal with their issues. Otherwise, they slip it in, ever been in a conversation where somebody slipped something in, Hey, what about delivery? Where’s that come from? Where did that come from? You know, it’s like a sales meeting, when the unhappy rep was out, you know, that little subject bomb, right? So I asked that. And then I’ll say, here are the two or three things that I’d like to cover as well. And I tell them up front, I give them a chance to start thinking about it. But also I’ve had people say why can’t I can’t answer those questions. That’s not what I’m in charge of, I’d like to know that before I start, there’s a lot of benefit. And then at the end, I’ll say, Look, I don’t know how today is gonna go. I mean, we may get into position where you know, your issues and what I do, don’t fit. And that’s okay. If we get there. In that case, you know, maybe in the future, on the other hand, we may find that some of the things that you’re frustrated by, we can help with. And so we should talk about a next step. The next step in my process is that you would invite me back for a night, tell them what my next step is. I have done this before we started the call. So what that does, is, at the end, I’m gonna say, hey, Allison, you know, where are we? If it makes sense to have another meeting, or doesn’t it so I’m not surprising you, especially if it wasn’t a next meeting, let’s say you had to decide whether you’re going to do business with me or not. Here’s what doesn’t work. You have a 60 minute call. 55 minutes into it. You say so what do you think? There’s a trial close, right? And people are like, Wow, that’s a lot. We got to think about it, but it’s been a minute and then hear from the stalls and objections. No, I’m telling you right up front what we’re going to decide, and knows, okay, always knows. Okay. But if it’s a yes, here’s where we are. And here’s what’s amazing thing. The intensity of that call, the focus of that call is dramatically different when you use that because they’re trying to decide, do I want to invest that time? Do I want to do this? I want to get my questions answered, versus Wikipedia. What do you got? What do you got? What do you do? And so it really sets the stage, but you should be doing that before you start every call. And when you end every call, hey, let’s just kind of review what’s going to happen next time. Allison? Do we I’m going to need about 90 minutes. Is that going to be okay? Up? Here’s what we’re going to cover. What do you want to make sure that I bring next time then and then we should be in a position to decide whether we should move forward or not. If that was my next step. And so I think Do that all through my sales process because as a salesperson, you should know where you are today, and where and what you need to do to get to that next step. So, Sandra always used to do sales funnel management with me and he would say, hey, When is that going to close? And I would say, you know, say, you know, in a week, so did they agree to that? Or is that just a fantasy in your mind? Did they agree to that in their contract? Well, of course they No, no, no. Did it come out of their mouth? Did you say and of course 100% of time, I’d say wow, no, no, I didn’t say that. But you got nothing. And so he trains me. I do this in like, I do. So my social life right. Okay, what are the next steps? What are okay, what’s going to happen next if we do this, right. So we’re looking at this house let’s pretend we ate the house. It’s done. But if we’d like the house on the what, what are we actually doing? Do we not like our house? I mean, what are we doing over here? And so we just get it all out before it happens right? And just the buyer seller wall goes Participation goes up. It’s kind of cool.


I love the fact that you just pointed out that you use it in your personal life as well. Once you master the upfront contract of what are the next steps and positioning of you know, you can apply it everywhere and it does it drops down the what’s expected next. I, I have applied it very much. So in my coaching practice in when I am meeting with someone and we’re doing a strategy session, the ups the upfront contract is to after this meeting, you’re going to make a decision of whether or not it makes sense for us to work together. And I get that commitment before we do the strategy session. It works. It works. It sets the expectation and it puts both of the person in charge of saying I’m not sure if this is a good fit and I sometimes I’m the one who says that versus you know, the prospect so well it’s liberating for both sides to be it is Oh, seriously Yes, because most people don’t want to say no to you. But if you give them permission ahead of time, it’s a lot easier.


Yeah. So upfront contracts. So now you have the upfront contract. How can you give listeners a couple of ideas? I know, this is super offensive to a lot of people. And I just happen to like, dig for the pain, look for the pain points. And it’s not to be sold. It’s to identify how you can help. So can you talk through pain points and how to do it correctly and do it poorly?


Sure. Well, let’s go back to some of the things I said let’s assume that you’ve tried to thought about the last 50 sales calls, you know that those top three issues are the ones that they would have to have for you to say that’s probably a prospect for me, right. And so let’s do negotiating margin because we talked about that already. So I say you know, here’s some of the issues that CEOs like yourself are frustrated by now I’m using trigger words frustrated, concerned upset. But those are pain trigger words, versus hey, I talked to CEOs that are super happy about margin being discounted. Anything you know, so I use the trigger words. And they’ll say, well, yeah, I have that one. And then the best analogy for your listeners is, now you become a doctor. Right? So doctors asked questions, when you go in, say, have a back pain. What are the doctors asked you? Well, they probably asked you. Well, let me be specific. So I want you to use the same types of questions. So when I say yes, they have a they have a problem with negotiating margin. My first question is, well, tell me more about that. That’s the first one. Second one. Can you give me an example? Be specific, right. So when they say, Well, you know, they’ve been doing this all the time, like, well give me an example. Well, just last week, but I might have thought about it. Now. I’m getting emotionally involved, right, as a buyer, which is great. And then I say, Well, how long has that been happening? I mean, a week A week, what are you talking about? This has been going on for two years there. Now who’s selling Who? Right? I say, Okay, well, look, have you? Have you tried to fix this in the past? Because obviously, you know, it’s an issue, right? You’re, you’re concerned about it. So have you tried to fix it? Yes, I’ve tried to fix it. And then this is this? Is anyone else concerned? Is this just your issue? Or? No? No, the CEO is concerned, they can turn over here. And so if you just ask the same questions that a doctor would ask, you’re going to be a lot better off. So you know, give me an example. These specific policies have been an issue. Right? Then, of course, you want to know what have you done to fix it? What have you done to fix it? You asking pain, impact for pain? Like as an example, you say you’re negotiating a margin? What’s the impact to the company? Is this actually a big deal? I mean, are we talking about $1,000 here, so I mean, we don’t want to waste a lot of time on that. So what’s the impact? Well, wait a minute now, I’ve got 10 salespeople, we’re negotiating away probably 20% of my margin. So they each make five sales. That’s $500,000. Now I always deny it. But that sounds Hi, Allison, that sounds very high. It’s not high. No, it’s not high. And now you’re and you’re just, I, all I have to do is keep the conversation going. And at the end, the buyers actually sold themselves, because I asked a lot of good questions. So I go back to this doctor analogy, I quickly say, but if I said, Hey, I got a back pain. Tell me about it. You know, what have you done taking heat? Cold, right? aspirin? What have you done? How long have you been there? It’s been hurting for a month a year. They asked me the same questions. What they don’t do is what we talked about before. You got a back problem. Whoa, let me show you all of my diplomas. Let me show you the table that you may be operated on. Let me do this. But isn’t that what salespeople do?


Well, Let me tell you about my company. Let me tell you about my products. Don’t say another word and that’s the trap.


I think that that is a really powerful way to talk through like you know having people understand what we what a lot of sales people and I have been totally guilty of doing that as well. Before I knew better.


Now you’re reformed right?


I am. I am reformed, reformed poor salesman. I’m now a stellar salesperson.


There you go.


One of one of the other Sandler rules is to never ask the unasked question number answer the last question. I think I said that correctly, right.


Yep. Number A never answered ask question. Yep.


Why is that why and why is that dangerous?


Well, I mean, first of all, I think half the time we assume it’s a question like for instance, your price is pretty high. Well, wait a minute. Hey, let me tell you why but about a minute. Had a bit a bit a bit a bit of it, and now you start justifying, but they didn’t mean ask you a question that was a statement. And so if somebody says, hey, your prices a little high, I would say, you must be telling me that for a reason. And so well, yeah, I just expected it to be lower. I don’t say anything, right? Or your prices are high. And now I started answering Here comes to discounting, not enough. So I think what you have to do, if you hear a question that needs to be validated, or more specific, then instead of answering it to three things, stroke, repeat, reverse. Hey, I appreciate you bringing that up. And when you say x, y, and z, help me understand that what does that mean exactly? And then let them talk, let them do their thing. But I think oftentimes we panic in the sales cycle. They say, they’re asking you that question, which is not even a question. That’s a statement most of the times and I think we get over, you know, worked up and we start answering stuff that’s never asked or even finished. You say hey, I’m real interest over In that software, I started talking your look like you’re gonna be a good buyer. And then, you know there’s a new upgrade coming out next month. What? Oh, then I’ll wait. Well, no, no, no, no, no, you get it for free. No, no, I don’t want to download twice a week. Now, what just happened? Did you ask that question? No, you didn’t ask that question. I felt compelled to oversell because you were getting excited. No, I got excited. Now, I don’t have to say that’s the problem.


How, what kind of guidance Do you give someone when to stop selling? The person who has bought? How do you know what are the signs?


Well, when I’m when I’m going through, let’s say that you had four problems. I’m validating and testing each one. So for instance, let’s go back to my example. So they had a problem with discounting margin. They had a problem with long selling cycles, right man three other problems. And so what normally salespeople will do as they go all the way to the end of the presentation. They say, what do you think? Isn’t that cool? No. So the first thing that I would do to make sure that you’re engaged and say, Look, we’ve got these five issues that you shared with me. Which one would you like to see me solve first, which one you’d like to talk about? First, however you word it. And so now I know you’ve picked your most important one, which by the way, is number is never number one on your list for whatever reason. It’s like two or three. Right? So now we’re going to do your first one. Now, here it is. I’m dancing around to show you all night, how we’re going to fix this wonderful thing. And then at the end, I before I move on to two, I say, Allison, I know we covered a lot. Are you comfortable with how we’re going to attack your reps giving away the margin? Now, you’re going to say yes or no to me. If you say no, now I know. If you say yes, so you’re 100% you’re good? Yep. Let’s go to number two. So I’ve just actually closed you on the most important thing right now. I’m going to do that. Same thing to number two, and the same thing to number three, and go on. And then pretty soon, all I have to say is I know I’ve got two more left thousand, we’ve only done three. But what would you like to do now? Have you seen enough or do you want me to continue? It’s up to you. And most of the time people say, I’m good. I’m good, because they actually covered the top three. The other two are just throwaways. Anyways, they’re just they’re happy. So I think that’s really where you are. And that’s how we do it. And that’s how I would expect you to do it.


Um, other than the fact that everyone should have Sandler sales if you are responsible for selling inside of your organization, what other tools should people who are responsible for making it rain? PlayStation, what else do they need in their toolbox?


Well, here’s some tools that we use that I think are super cool. Connect and sell which is an auto dialer. So It’ll dial 100 to 100 numbers per hour, you get eight to 12 live people per hour. What rep in your company can get eight to 10 live people on a cold call? Nobody. They’re actually over there sucking their thumbs because they got call reluctance, right? So they’re over there worrying about it making their second cup of coffee in the last 15 minutes. So that’s a big one. Second I like is crystal. Crystal is an app. And it’ll tell you exactly what the DiSC profile is their behavioral profile of people before you’ve even talked to them. And how cool would it be for you to know that I’m a DI? Right. So let’s cut to the chase. If you started the sales call, hey, tell me about your weekend. Oh, wrong question. Wow, really my weekend. So you know, that’s cool. I like Gong which is voice intelligence. We use that that is super cool. That just records everything that you do. It could record this. It could as well. GO mg. And here’s what that does in a nutshell. It records everything but with artificial intelligence. So as a leader, I can listen to any of my reps calls. 24 seven, I don’t have to do it in real time, I could do it at night, I could actually hear what they’re actually saying versus what the rep told me, which is typically fantasy. And so that’s good. And I also can say, Hey, did you talk about budget? Because I noticed that you said that you’re this sales happening this month. That’s in a week. She’s talking about money. Oh, absolutely. We talked about money. Well, actually, what you said was, don’t worry about it, you can afford it. That’s not money. I don’t know how we’re going to, you know, put that in the pipeline. So it helps me be a scientist. Now from a rep perspective, I can listen to my calls. I can also it tells me hey, he talked to 90% of the time. Hey, he didn’t ask open ended questions. Hey, he never talked about the new product that you asked this. I can make sure that they talk about this new online learning thing to talk about online like, yep, nope. never came out of my mouth, which happens to most if you’re an owner, you know, frustration that you have. You got cool new stuff. And your people aren’t talking about the cool new stuff, because it’s out of their comfort zone. So now you’ll know. But the best thing that it does is it creates a virtual playbook. That computer will take the best phrases from every rep that you have, and say, if they say this, this will get you there. An example is we trained LinkedIn right? And they had gone I didn’t know who they were, they had gone and we teach a phrase called My biggest fear. And without going into that whole thing, it’s my biggest fear is a technique. And it’s awesome. And what they found out was that the reps using Hey, my biggest fear is in their sales call, actually had a much higher progression rate from sales. Stage one to stage two. And they all the way through, had no idea and I wouldn’t have known either that that was the phrase, but the computer came back and said, what’s common with everyone is my biggest fear. And after they say it, the sale actually accelerates because they can they do the engagement levels, right. And that and now everybody at LinkedIn, my biggest fear, they said, Hey, that works. They also figured out that the usage of the material, Sandler went down, about 90 days after we trained because they didn’t reinforce it. They said, Hey, listen, we’re not using it anymore. We need reinforcement. So what it does, it allows you to get into their reps world without actually being in the reps world and you can really coach to them. It’s kind of it’s very cool. So I like that as well. And then there’s others, you know, we there’s a bunch of other tools that we use, but those three stick out. Very cool Alexa, we use Alexa all the time, you know all my materials on Alexa now. But those three non Sandler tools, I would tell people to go check out immediately connect and sell crystal. And then Gong g OMG.


Awesome. Gong is a new one to me. And I think that is a great tip for those who wants to be able to listen in and hear how there are things are being positioned affect. So my biggest fear is something that I know has been used on me. And it does work because you immediately connect and relate to someone in something that they’re fearful over. That’s fun.


Well puts the biggest roadblock in the table, right? So surely, you know, my biggest fear. Let’s just assume for a second that you were training with another company and I could just say, hey, Allison, you know, my biggest fear is that even though you may share a ton of concerns with me today, and we may have a world class solution, my biggest fear would be that it’s going to be difficult for you to leave your current job. buyer, because you’ve been dealing with him for 15 years. So why don’t we just talk about that? there? You know, and you fill in the blanks, but that’s an awesome price. Yeah.


Yeah. Awesome. Um, in, in your training process, what do you feel gets more traction, cold calls or cold emails?


From have more traction from a buyer?


I guess 60 that’s moving something down the sales pipeline.


Well, I think more people are deciding that outbound calls are not as effective. I would disagree with that. I think that emails, of course, you know, we do emails, we do cold emails, we do cold calls. Emails are of a higher percentage, but not by much. But the good thing about the email part is they have no call reluctance. You just A button. And that’s the that’s the issue. So what a what a real person make 50 a day for how long? I don’t know. But I could send out the emails. Your email should be pain focused, though. But I would just tell those entrepreneurs and those salespeople that make the phone calls, phone calls still work, they work great. Why? Because no one else is making them. That’s fine.


Yeah. And I would also say right now, specifically, where we are in the nation as far as people working from home, people are eager to speak to people and they’re done with emails. So I fell down on that strategy, if it’s a strategy that you have been using, yep.


How can salespeople use a referral tree?


Well, let’s define whatever referral tree is first.


Referral tree is that Allison’s my client, and she gives me three different CEOs are people she referred me to. So she’s the basis of my trade. Now I put the three on the branch. And what I find is maybe they didn’t buy, but they actually gave me somebody else to talk to. And once you start tracking who gave you what referrals and where do they all come from? You’re going to realize that there are certain people in your network, some that you knew were that powerful, but some you didn’t, that give you an incredible amount of business. And you need to focus in on those people over service them, take care of them, because they’ve given you X amount of millions of dollars in business, indirectly through the referral tree. And so when you’re oblivious to that, then you’re not you’re not really leveraging all the things that you should be in, you’re probably not taking care of that individual the way you should be as well.


I guess I forgot that I realized that not everyone knows what a referral tree is. So thank you for taking us through that. We’re doing Sandler jargon now.


Completely. Dave, we’ve covered a number of tips today here. Is there any tip that I didn’t think to ask you about that you that you’d like to share?


Well, I would, I would say, for the owners and for the salespeople, maybe a good tip would be to connect your personal goals to the corporate goals. And so what does that mean? Let’s just assume that I’m your leader, I’m your manager, I give you a $10 million quota. And you know, that’s your quota. And that’s all we talked about, where are you in quota where you’re in quota? The problem is that you didn’t connect the what’s in it for the sales rep. Right. So what I would suggest that you do, and if your leader is not going to do it, you can do it to yourself is by the $10 million quota. I’m going to make let’s pretend $500,000 in commission, and so the connection is, let’s pretend we got to the $10 million quarter which we will you’re going to get $500,000 what would you do with it? Well, I would spend some money on my kids education, I would maybe put some in retirement, I would do x. That’s what I’m going to start managing. So I would even cut a picture of those things right in your workspace. And so what you’ve done now is you’ve taken this $10 million quota, which you thought was too high anyways, you’ve been fighting me, and you’re not doing that what you’re really working for is the wedding, the retirement and this, and that makes me do all those extra things. Now, everyone says, oh, that kind of sounds simple. It does. But honestly, but 90% of companies don’t, don’t link the corporate goals to the personal goals. And I think in today’s world, especially with all these things that you have to do that you may be uncomfortable with, get it done, and you’ll find that you just progress.


I think that’s a huge golden nuggets. That is really important. I mean, even in thinking through any executive coaching that I do, I try to attack wouldn’t do them to the role that they’re, you know, they’re serving inside of the organization. And it’s really important with sales because often the salespeople aren’t the ones who develop the goals they get given them. So to make that make that tie back, so I think that’s a fantastic point, I think.


well, well thought out. Um, Dave, I definitely want to make sure that people understand you said 239 offices worldwide.


Yeah, we have 265 offices.




There is a Sandler in almost every major city. I would encourage you if you’ve not met with your Sandler Training on local representation to check it out. They offer a wealth of exceptional group and individual training, a lot of online virtual that’s done. And just good folks. If people want to follow you, personally, what’s your preferred platform for them to check out?


They can certainly look me up on LinkedIn. They can do it And at, but I’m certainly on LinkedIn. And Allison if it if anyone that’s listening to the podcast that is a client of yours that would like to crash a class, all they have to do is tell the local office Hey, I heard Dave on Allison’s podcast. He said, I can crash the class, they’ll let them into whatever they would like to see as our gift.


Fantastic. And I very much appreciate that. I know our local listeners will definitely, they better take you up on that offer. So outstanding. Thank you so much for your time today. It has been truly a pleasure to refresh some of the things that may have been a little rusty in my own Sandler Training.


But it’s nice to be here. And thanks for having me. Hopefully, I can come back someday.


Fantastic. Thank you so much, Dave.

I'm Allison Dunn,

Your Business Executive Coach

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