Personal Finances with Christopher Panagiotu

Reading Time: 20 Minutes

In this episode, my guest is Chris Panagiotu and he shares simple tips to improve your financial life.

Takeaways We Learned from Chris…

Embrace Individuality

Always remind yourself it is okay to go against the grain. I’ve always danced to the beat of my own drum, and as a leader, it’s crucial to be true to yourself and not let external opinions dictate your path.

Confidence in Self-Worth

If you’re not actively reminding yourself of how valuable you truly are, you’re doing your following and yourself a grave disservice. Know your worth, and don’t let external judgments shake your confidence.

Leadership Tip – March to Your Beat

Know your beat and march to it. In leadership, being authentic and true to your principles sets you apart. Don’t conform for the sake of others; lead with your unique rhythm.

Strategic Investment – Endowment Model

The endowment model, inspired by Yale’s success, strategically combines traditional investments with alternative assets. Diversify intelligently, balancing income and growth to weather market fluctuations.

Alternative Investments

Consider alternative investments like real estate, private equity, and lending. They offer a unique blend of income and growth, challenging the conventional wisdom of traditional investment approaches.

Financial Planning Analogies – Football Strategies

Viewing financial strategies as offensive plays in football, understand the importance of core strategies (like running the ball) and satellite strategies (like alternative investments) to score financial touchdowns.

Building Wealth – Know Your Salsa

Before diving into investments, understand your core financial structure. Figure out your ‘salsa,’ your unique financial rhythm, and build a strong foundation for sustainable wealth growth.

Monetary Wisdom – The Cat Lady of Cash

Avoid hoarding excess cash. Once you have what you need, invest strategically. Being overly conservative with cash can hinder your financial growth potential.

Business Success – Become Known and Trusted

In business, become as known and trusted as humanly possible. Goodwill and trust are invaluable assets. Concentrate efforts on key clients and partners who contribute significantly to your success.

Concentrated Portfolio Lifestyle

Embrace a concentrated portfolio lifestyle in both business and personal life. Rather than excessive diversification, focus on key elements that contribute the most to your overall success and happiness.

About Christopher Panagiotu

Christopher A. Panagiotu, the CAP in CAPitalize, was introduced to investing at the age of 10. Chris was extremely blessed to have discovered Lucia Capital Group and in 2015 he began his journey to grow what is now CAPitalize Your Finances. In his nearly seven years at Lucia Capital Group, Chris built his practice from scratch, going from $0 to nearly $100M in that timespan.

Read the Transcript

Allison: Welcome back to the Deliberate Leaders podcast. I am your host and executive business coach Allison Dunn. Our topic today is truly understanding your personal finances. Our guest is Chris the Panagiotu, he was introduced to investing at the tender age of 10. Chris was extremely blessed to have discovered Lucia Capital Group. And in 2015, he began his journey to grow what is now Capitalize Your Finances. Over the last eight years, Chris built his practice from scratch, going from zero to n to nearly $100 million. Chris, thanks so much for joining us here today. 

Chris: There is no place I would rather be been on your show. And, you know, I wanted to ask, do you prefer Alli  or Allison because I just jumped right in Alli, assuming we were best friends. And so if you’re more of an Allison I profoundly apologize.

Allison: Professionally Allison and then the moment I meet someone, I’m therefore going forward Alli. So we are now friends. Fantastic.

Chris: Yeah, cuz I was thinking to myself, Oh, gosh, totally blew that one. And that’s like, such an A rookie mistake if I blew it, right. But I’m glad that I didn’t.

Allison: I had to pronounce your name like 20 times before the podcast started to try to get it right. So right back at you.

Chris: And you know what, you did a fantastic job. And here’s the thing, and I’ve noticed this with my followers, once they get it? Yeah. Never forget it.

Allison: Which it is vastly different than what I thought it was pronounced. So that’s a unique name. Chris, I love to kick these off with a deliberate conversation. What would be your number one leadership tip for our listeners.

Chris: Number one leadership tip? Well, there’s a couple that come to mind. The first one that just hit my abnormally large forehead was to always remind yourself it is okay to go against the grain. I can tell you, I’ve always kind of danced to the beat of my own drum. If you haven’t picked that up in the first five minutes that we got to chat before this this show. And I think thank you, that’s, uh, I’m fortunate to have that blessing. Because I don’t care. I really don’t care. What someone thinks about me. I mean, granted, you know, like, if they were egregiously off mark, like, oh, my gosh, like, This guy’s a murderer. It’s like, whoa, like, Let’s pump the brakes. I’m not that. But if someone says, Man, he’s just so egotistical or narcissistic. And whatever he’s doing, it’s like, I know who I am, I know what I’m worth. And I’m going to be damned if someone just kicked me out of my sphere, in my center of influence, to basically just take me down because they don’t necessarily feel confident about themselves.

And so as a leader, I think it’s one of those things where if you don’t, if you’re not actively reminding yourself of how valuable you truly are, you’re doing your following and yourself a grave disservice.

Allison: That is the first time I’ve gotten that tip. And I occasionally get to say that because we have a lot of repeat tips, but it also resonates with something that I think is really important that we know the truth. And if we’re not sharing our knowledge and speaking it, and like holding back in lack of confidence, then we’re not really serving in the way that we can. So a was your original tip, you know, march to the beat of your own drum. Was that what you said?

Chris: Yeah, well, I don’t know if that was really a tip. But like, I’ve always I’ve always marched to the beat of my own drum.

I guess if I converted that to a tip, I would say, know your beat and march to it.

Allison: Okay, love it. That’s a fantastic tip. Thanks, Chris. Okay, so we’re going to dive into personal finances a little bit with the with a, hopefully a flare of first the business lens, and then maybe a personal finance lens. So I’m going to ask, I’m going to try to try to distinguish what type of question I’m asking. So I’m, I’m a coach that is working with dozens and dozens of businesses, and we’re talking about tax planning for the end of the year. And I’m hoping that’s something that maybe you could shed a little bit of light on some of the best ways that if someone is running a business, that they can find tax savings?

Chris: Oh, yeah. Well, for starters, as of this recording on November 28, you’ve got like 30 days minus the whole All right, so you got like three weeks to figure it out. So no pressure on your end, I do wish you the absolute best as far as tax planning goes. So, you know, it’s generally not ideal to game plan in a football game, when you just entered the two minute warning and you’re out of timeouts. However, for the purpose of this conversation, let’s assume you didn’t have two minutes left to the end of the year. So the best return on investment that you can guarantee on yourself, whether it’s a business or personal, other than investing in yourself, which super cliche, but it’s very accurate.

The second best investment course you can guarantee on yourself is the taxes you avoid. Okay, not evade that is illegal. Avoid.

And so if you have not set up some type of retirement plan, generally speaking, that’s going to be the 401k. You know, if you’re if you’re a solo type of employer, maybe a SEP IRA, we’ve worked with simples in the past, but there’s a saying I have in my office simples are stupid. And but if you are profitable in you do not have a 401k setup. I, I’ve told a couple clients this in the past, you don’t exactly like to hear this, but they’re like, Yeah, I didn’t want to set up the 401k. Because I wanted to take my $23,000 Instead of maxing out my 401 K as an employee, and I go, Well, congratulations, you just cost yourself 40% of that in taxes next year. How do you feel about that, Mr. Mrs. Client, they’re like, well, you’re kind of saying it aggressively. I go, Whoa, dude, if you listened to what I said, and actually did the dang thing, then you would be a whole heck of a lot happier. Um, occasionally, for business owners that are over 40 that are really, really crushing it, this can be a little bit controversial when to use it.

A cash balance plan can be mission critical. I mean, you can put in up to $300,000. And unlike a retirement plan, like a 401 K, you also avoid Medicare and Social Security tax on top of federal, and, you know, it’s technically like a pension plan. So there are some confusing little nuances. So you can’t exactly invest it however you would like. That’s no different than a pension or an endowment. We work with those as well. Although individual people are more fun, let’s be honest, you deal with a board. It’s just it’s boring. Everyone’s like trying to have a stick up each other’s ass, pardon my language, and trying to like show how smart they are. It’s like, Stop, like, let’s just let’s be humans here. But like fun ones, not lame. And so those two options, the 401k, and especially the cash balance plan. That’s like the easiest answer in the world.

Allison: Love that. As far as you know, strategies for investments that you guide people on what is the best long term investment strategy.

Chris: Hotness, the tea is hot, controversial, if you will. So I actually just wrote an episode about this a couple months ago, which is perfect timing that I’m having on your podcast to enlighten your listeners on this topic. So there are four main what I would say long term investment strategies out there. And the three that I’m not going to talk about, we’re not going to mention because they’re not as good.

The number one way to grow one’s net worth strategically, is the utilization of something I call the endowment model.

So brief background bullet pointing. I know you announced at the beginning start investing when I was 10. That was in the stock market. It wasn’t until I was who 23 or 24, I started to understand the value of real estate as an investment.

And then I started utilizing private equity lending all of these different alternative strategies in tandem with the stock market, which is also just a fancy way of publicly owning businesses. And I thought to myself, There’s got to be some framework around all of this. And I touched upon it a little bit in my book, but I thought gosh, I’ve kind of devote a an episode to this. So in 2017 I was actually googling what is the best way to grow your net worth. And how I did that was I first asked myself, How did billionaires make their money it because they have what I don’t, they have a billion dollars. And at that point I had not that and I also had no hope. So like Desperate times call for desperate measures. And the first thing I remember reading on God, Google was about 55% of millionaires, self made billionaires have made their money off of some form of real estate, and said, Hmm, okay, that’s kind of interesting. But I can’t just throw Real Estate Investment Trusts at clients. All day long. It’s totally illiquid, that’s not wise. So I kept scrolling and scrolling and I’m on page, like five of Google, which is the Forgotten lands of Google, like people don’t even think that’s a thing. And there was a term that came across my screen called the entitlement model. And I initially sold myself short, as most people do at one stage of their life for another saying, I’m never going to oversee an endowment, like that’s just silly, kept scrolling, kept scrolling it keep the kept popping up, I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna look into this.

The second I read it, it changed the way I’ve grown my net worth, as well as clients grown their net worth. In so the endowment model was created by Dr. David Swensen rip out of Yale University. And for 40 years, this guy was the chief investment officer of Yale’s endowment, and he earned about 14 and a half percent over that time. So to give you context, the market over that period of time earned about seven, which is historically pseudo in line. So me being the simplistic mind that I am said, Okay, what if I’m off by half, like I’m half as good as him, I still doubled the client’s money in 10 years. So why not look into it. And so I started looking in and looking in. And it’s interesting, because the endowment model has had a tremendous amount of criticism, up until 2022, because you talk about mitigating all of these, this risk, which is a whole nether topic we could get into, but no one listens to you, when the market just keeps going up. And you could have been a bozo from 2009 Up until the end of 2021. And you probably would have made a hell of a lot of money 2022 tide goes out, people learned very quickly, who was swimming, clothed, and who was swimming naked. And those that were swimming naked, got very hurt, and very metaphorically embarrassed. And those that were swimming clothes that utilize the endowment model, realized, Oh, I know a lot of this money outside of the market, that I can dollar cost average into the market, while it’s at a discount.

That’s what the endowment model did, for 40 years, until Dr. Swenson passed away. And so it’s one of those things where I said, huh, okay, last year was kind of the, the proving point of that strategy. But that being said, just because I do it, and I utilize it, for a number of my clients looking to grow their net worth, I have clients that simply have a bias against real estate, they’ve had bad experiences, or let’s see, they’re older, and they remember 2008, nine and 10, and technically 11, and 12, during the Great Recession, and they lost their butts, in real estate. Or then you have clients that just, they’re like, Hey, this is so complex, like, just make it really simple. And you can do very well just in the market. So I know I’m dancing a little bit. But the number one strategy I have seen is the endowment model. I use that for my wife and my net worth, as well as the majority of our clients. But we have some clients that it just that doesn’t fit well with them. And so we keep it simple.

Allison: So, for the sake of honesty, which I believe is the best policy. I own real estate, but I have no idea in the world what you’re talking about when you say the endowment model.

Chris: Okay. So, what used to be that? Yeah, so so I’ll dive into it a little bit. So, history lesson, let’s take a trip down memory lane. So before Dr. David Swensen became the chief investment officer of Yale, most endowments, pensions and everyday investors had two investment types. Really, really three, they had stocks, bonds, in cash, and there’s an adage of what is more important than a car, the are most important, the engine, the seatbelt, or the brake. Now most men just go to the engine, right? But if you don’t have a brake and a seatbelt, you’re going to die. And then if you don’t have a brake Okay, or if you don’t have an engine, but you have a brake and a seatbelt, that car isn’t going to go anywhere. And if you just have a seatbelt like you’re a loser, so you need to have all three of them. Engine is the stock brake is the bond. Seatbelt is the cash. That is how it has been up until he came in. Well, Dr. Swenson discovers, ha, I’ve been living in my home for God knows how long and it’s gone up.

And if I wanted to rent it out, I could get an income for it. So what he started doing is realizing, okay, let’s replace bonds, where you just, it’s an IOU, you get income. And let’s have in cash, and let’s have alternative investments, real estate’s the most common private equity, hedge funds, lending, there’s a number of different strategies out there. Because as a whole, alternative investments historically, according to Swenson, earn the same type of income as a bond, but you also get growth to it. So look at your home. Okay, God forbid I lived with you, you would charge me an arm and a leg for rent, frankly, for hazard pay. Okay, well, yeah, well, I would, too. And so if that’s the case, that’s your alternative income source, no different than a bond. But unless you live in a dilapidated piece of garbage, which I’m going to strongly since you don’t, unless you’ve cleaned up that background really well. So your home has probably grown over time. And that is the alternative growth aspect, as opposed to a traditional growth model of the stock market.

So he basically replaced the bonds and the cash, meaning the brakes, and the seatbelt, with alternative investment loans. Now, he got away with this in the fact that with an endowment, people are tossing money at it all the time. So you don’t really need a tremendous amount of cash on the side, because it’s going to be replenished. And so he took 80% of the endowment, and he utilized the market, he took the remaining 20%. This was initially back in the day that he purchased alternative investments. Now, and I this actually coming out in my online course, January 2, where I illustrate all this. And the market historically, never been a 15 year period where the markets done less than 8%. Since 1950, nothing anyone’s counting and alternatives have done about the same. And I remember doing research going white, why don’t you just pick one and roll with it? Well, you need to decipher how the 8% is constructed.

So what Swenson realized, was in the market out of that 8%, the majority of business growth is in the future. I can tell you with your business, you’re not getting it all. Today, it is going to be down the road. But you’re paying yourself a little bit today’s there’s the dividend. So 2% dividend 6%, growth, reinvest with alternatives. It’s backwards. So go back to me charging, are you charging an arm and a leg of rent for me to live with you? Right? That is the 6% today, but he didn’t even care about the growth aspect of it. Because he knows it’s going to keep up with historical inflation at around two. So he took that income from his alternative investments in emerging into the market. So now let’s go back in time a little bit and use some relative figures. 2019, what happens? market was up. So what he would have done is he would have taken the gains. Now I happen to be man of faith, okay, born and raised Presbyterian. And so the way I look at this as a steward of my faith is God is blessing you with a future return prematurely today. So as a steward of your wealth, why don’t you take that game off of the table? Re deploy into alternatives to get out of the market in Yeah, you’re diversifying, but it’s very dynamic.

Now go to 2022. What happened to the market? took a dump. That’s the technical financial term was down, whatever we call that, that that is very high level planning. Okay. So markets down 20. What happened to real estate? Real estate was up. What happened to privately owned businesses, a lot of them did really, really well. What happened to private credit, when interest rates rise, those floating rate loans increased. And so instead of being at at 20, let’s say hypothetically, you went to like 6040. Now hold on a sec. You Now got 40% of your net worth paying the majority of future market return into the market while it’s at a discount. So you’re cooking. And so when there’s another gain, you do that a couple times in your career. That’s what Swenson did his entire tenure at Yale’s endowment. And the difference is, with an endowment, it’s supposed to go forever. And I hate to tell you, I don’t think we’re making it out of life alive, like, eventually, we’re going to end it. So what I’ve realized with people is you use alternatives as a Swiss army knife.

So you could dollar cost average, you could send that money to a checking account. Let’s say that, you know, your significant other says, hey, I want to pull back like we just had a child at the beginning of the year, our little baby girl, Abby is 10 months as of today, absolute angel, I’m a little bias. And so Steph went from full time to part time step is my better half. And so we utilize the alternatives to replace that delta in her income. And so a lot of people get fixed on alternatives as Oh, that’s got to be the only answer. Because real estate, it’s an easy sell. It’s in front of you. It’s tangible. I can tell you last year, I got to interview Adam Cecil, who wrote where the money is one of the smartest investors in the world, one of the best investment books ever. And think about your real estate. How do you really control what’s going on? You can only control so much, because then there comes a point where it’s real estate around you. Versus with the business? Can you control how much you’re going to grow your business? Absolutely. Can your clients control how much they’re going to grow their business? Yeah. And I can tell you, they’ve grown it a lot more than the 8% total return historically, that real estate is paid. And so that’s where it hit me going. Okay, you need to make sure that the core of your strategy is well oiled machines of businesses, and then you utilize alternatives as a satellite strategy.

Allison: Okay, thank you for kind of pulling back the layers of what that exactly means I think of an endowment as a school endowments like just like the yell example. So privately. Yeah. I mean, I think my next question is, is thinking about the idea of investing versus planning, like, what are some of the ways that people go wrong when planning for their personal finances in terms of that? Okay.

Chris: So I’m going to use an analogy first. Now, if this doesn’t work, I’m going to have to quickly figure out another analogy, but it hasn’t failed me yet. So now you’re in New Hampshire, right?

Allison: I am from New Hampshire, which was where you picked up my Canadian accent?

Right? Okay. So where are you at? Currently?

Allison: I’m in Boise, Idaho.

Chris: Boise, Idaho. Okay. So you’re technically a Bronco, right? Like, okay, great. So football, because if you live in Boise like and you’re not a football fan, you bleed blue, blue, blue. Okay, so you get football, when you’re on offense, your purpose is to score a touchdown. Of course, you could kick a field goal, but like that’s setting the bar low, you want to get in the endzone. So I’m going to use the Seahawks of the old just because it’s easy for us. So every team has a forced strategy to get into the end zone. So when Marshawn Lynch played for the Seahawks, guess what? They run the ball. I mean, they blow it in the Super Bowl, but like normally they run the ball. Okay? Now in the NFL, these players are not stupid. Trust me, I’ve had a couple of them on my show. And they’re fantastic people. Also, they’re mammoth.

But back to the topic at hand. If you run it all day long, they’re not stupid. They will plug every single gap in the line in Marshawn isn’t going anywhere. So then you set up what I call satellite strategies, where Russell maybe runs it, or he dished it to Doug Baldwin, or he threw one to Jimmy Graham, or Tyler Lockett, who’s still like the last man standing from the days of all. And so you have all these satellites, strategies around the core strategy to the overall purpose of scoring a touchdown. Where people get confused, is investing are all of those satellites strategies. But if you don’t have a core framework, you’re screwed in. People think that oh, planning is jumping to the satellite strategies.

Planning is setting the foundation in the core and understanding what makes you tick. I call it figuring out your salsa in my book.

And so a lot of people totally are misguided from that. out, and you don’t realize it, when times are going really, really, really well. But like I said earlier when the tide goes out, and you realize if you swim in clothes that are naked, okay? which no one wants to see. It’s one of those things where you go, Oh, okay, can I actually withstand the financial test of time. And so that’s what I talked about my book and in my masterclass the four sections of capitalizing your finances today, tomorrow, retirement legacy, if you don’t have a pot to piss in, forget, legacy, right? If you can’t, if you can’t, you know, shrub two pennies together, forget about investing in retirement, you need to set everything up.

And there’s a great quote, by Mohnish Pabrai, who’s one of my favorite investors Mohnish, if you’re listening, I can’t wait to have you on soon, once you listen to my DMs, but neither here nor there, he has a great quote where he says, he says it’s so much more elegantly than me, it’s got that thick Indian accent, obviously, it’s worth like a billion dollars. So he’s got that, you know that that that swab, I’m not any says, I take no risk. So I can take all of the risk. And I thought to myself, gosh, that is so brilliant. Now, if I said that, on my show, regulation would be down my throat, and they’d have a metaphoric or literal gun to my head, but I’m on your show. So I can say this. And it’s one of those things where, you know, if you have in you capitalize your savings, where you have three to six months, or if you’re a business, you’d better capitalize your savings as well, whatever your business is, you got to know your business.

If you’re a real estate agent, and you don’t have a long runway, you may have up to a year’s worth of savings, or if you’re a construction company. And you know, cash flow is going to be really, really tight. And you’ve been in it long enough. This is where I coach a lot of clients on this. You may need 6789 months, we have one client who has a year and a half of emergency fund because they can go eight months and make diddly boo. So you know, but once you have all that set aside by definition, you, you you, if you had any more money, you go from being prudent to the cat lady of cash. And there are many things that I despise in this world. Other than admin and cats I’m allergic to I’ve had bad experiences, traumatic experiences, and I don’t want any more of those.

So if you become the cat lady of cash, you’re just hoarding all of this cash, you’re actually doing yourself a disservice.

So you have what you need. And then by definition, you invest, whether it’s the market, and individual stocks, mutual funds, ETFs, real estate, private equity, all these things. I talked about my book, assuming you’re not making just stupid investments, like the peloton before it went tits up. You’re you’re actually not taking any risk with that. So therefore, you can take all the risks. Does that make sense?

Allison: That makes perfect sense to me. I get that. Yeah. Awesome.

Chris: Okay, yeah. And for your listeners that don’t watch football. Two things. One, I’m sorry that the analogy won’t work. And then two, I’m just sorry, because you are missing out on a lovely pastime of our great nation.

Allison: We are at kind of the I’m going to say the bottom of the hour. And I just want to make sure was there. Is there any last final tip that you would like to give our listeners who likely do own a real estate investment and who likely do have a business or want one in the future?

Chris: Oh, okay, so there’s two parts there. That’s really two questions, but that’s okay. I will let you squeeze the blood out of the turnout because I like so the first one would be real estate.

So general advice from a real estate side of things. Be really cautious.

I could just end it there. But yeah, that would be really mean. And so I’m going to give you a little bit more. Be cautious. And what I mean by that is really understand your cash flow. Really understand the improvements that you may or may not need to make. Budget more than you’ve ever budgeted in your life for tenant improvements. If you have real estate and it has had one hell of a run. Ask yourself if that’s going to keep happening for the next So, like, if you’ve had it for 10 years, ask yourself, do you think it’s going to keep growing at this rate for 10 years? And then you got to ask yourself, Is this worth me keeping or not?

When it comes to business advice you know, if I gave you like the monetary advice, that’s easy, right. But I would say the best advice I wish I knew when I started in business is versed, become as known as humanly possible. Second, become as trusted as humanly possible. After that, referrals weren’t actually pull Korean, because of the goodwill that you’ve built up, which is the most valuable line item on your balance sheet, by the way. And once you have your business built up, get extremely concentrated into who you are partnering with, because chances are for your business owners out there, they’ve built this huge array of people. And, frankly, the 8020 rule, right 80% of revenue comes from 20% your clients, it is no different than 80% of your satisfaction business come from 20% of your business partners, or, you know, 80% of your happiness in your marriage comes from 20% of the things that are the most important. You know, I’m very big on what I call the concentrated portfolio lifestyle. You know, a lot of people say, Oh, my gosh, diversification is super important. Really, name me one overly successful person that has diversified since the get go. Not one. Not one, even Warren Buffett in 1982. He took 40% of Berkshires portfolio and invest it into American Express bowls of a lion of a line today, like 47% of the portfolio is invested in apple. So it’s like, no, yeah, he’s diversified if you really so live the concentrated portfolio lifestyle, both in business and your life.

Allison: Great tips, Chris, the cap. Capitalize thoroughly enjoyed our conversation today. And I just want to give you kudos on your masterclass that’s coming out. I will include in the show notes, links to that so they can check it out. And just really appreciate you sharing your ideas on how to build net wealth and personal wealth.

Chris: Thank you and for your listeners if they want to follow me right if they’re not sick and tired of me after today’s episode, which I hope they’re not, I’m very sensitive, as you’ve probably figured out. I you know, I’m holding back tears right now. So if you want to follow me capital, your finances on Spotify, or Apple pod, but frankly, Spotify is where we get our listeners, if you want to watch the interviews that we’ve had. It’s been fantastic. We’ve had guests like the Maroon Five drummer, the fullback with Miami Dolphins Fahim, Anwar, who’s been on Rogan a couple of times, people of that nature as well as just my free advice. You could go on YouTube and watch me but again, you know, I have a face for radio. If you are saying, hey, I want to keep up with you. And I want to know what’s going on in your career in your business with your course. If you head on over to Instagram, that’s where we’re the most. Most active Kathlyn capitalized, or you can try saying my last name, but I don’t want anyone to hurt themselves. And then we’re also on LinkedIn in ex slash Twitter. You can go there so many places to find me and then on Amazon five star and buy my book, please. College is counting on it.

Allison: You bet. Chris, thank you so much for joining us here today. I appreciate you.

Chris: Thank you.

I'm Allison Dunn,

Your Business Executive Coach

Join our list for exclusive tips, content and a welcome gift – our ebook on how to engage your team and boost profits.