Have you ever stood at your sink asking yourself, what have I accomplished today? Have you moved paper from one side of the desk to the other asking, what’s the point?
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Deliberate Leaders I am your host, Allison Dunn, founder of the Deliberate Leaders podcast dedicated to helping leaders build strong, thriving businesses. Each episode, we feature inspiring interviews to help you on your leadership journey. And it gives me great pleasure to introduce our guest today. We have with us, Finley MacArthur is a visionary, a psychotherapist and NLP master practitioner, a psychic comedian, and an author of multiple books, but specifically, the one we’re going to be talking about today is the human whisperer. Super excited because our conversations today is going to dive deep into how to better understand our very complicated world that we live in that’s constantly changing and evolving. And we thank you so much for joining us here today.
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely. I’m just going to disclose you are in the UK. Correct. Is that accurate?
That’s right. Hence, the darkness behind me. Yes, we have to make sure it’s on the dark side of the pond. Yes, exactly.
I always like to kick these off with a deliberate conversation and just pick your brain, what would be the number one leadership tip that you would give to our deliberate leader listeners today?
Number one leadership tip, I think is to be quite nice is the basic one of listening. I think to be honest, I’m only listening to you know, the staff of what’s going on, but also listening to what’s going on around you as well. I think it’s very important. It’s very important part of being a leader, which I think sometimes gets overlooked. Being leaders, I think sometimes, and having been mine myself for many years, I think we fall into that trap of having to know everything all the time. So it’s taking that step back to actually just listen and take on board what’s actually going on around you. So that that I would say to be quite honest, over the last 40 odd years will be the tip I would give any leaders that are coming through the ranks definitely
The number one piece of feedback that I get as an executive coach, when we kind of wrap up the session together is there like you know, like you like thank you for listening? You know, I think too many leaders often don’t have anyone to listen to them, right. And then the best tip you’re giving is to listen to others. And so it has to come full circle. So that’s such a outstanding tip. I love it. Okay, um, what is a whisper? I mean, we know here in the States, we have like a dog whispers and horse whispers. But what is a human whisper?
You know, Allison is exactly the same. It’s learning how to as a dog whisperer and a horse whisperer you because they can’t talk, you have to pick up everything from the body language to how they’re behaving, or the things that they’re not doing, which they should be doing. And I feel that in society these days, we’ve lost the knack of being able to do that. Being able to, to engage with people, but just by picking up, how they’re acting, how they’re talking. And obviously the things that they’re not saying as well, which is awfully important. And I think having that those sort of nonverbal clues as well, with what people are saying, and just really interacting with people from a higher level. And I think animals do it on a on a on a, on a basis that we were still getting to understand because they can’t talk. But I think going on from what we said earlier about listening and I think, to be quite as a human Whisperer is the same, we have to learn how to communicate with sometimes not being able to talk. And that’s kind of the basis of a human whisperer. It’s very, very similar to a dog or horse whisperer, but just in human form. And it’s not there’s no there’s no hidden depths, or hidden science. It’s just using those old instincts that we don’t use very, very often these days. because everything’s mechanized, everything’s around technology and AI. It’s getting back to that old fashioned way of communicating with people without having to rely on other sources to understand how that person is how the interactions between you and that person,
If that makes sense. It makes perfect sense. I am a very keen person who picks up on Just the presence of someone else in a room together, and the energies that they put off. And I love the fact that you dive into the concept energy concepts inside of the book a little bit. I’ve heard the concept of union Yang, can you share with our listeners that we do have two competing energies and explain what that means.
Of course, it’s um, I think people go through life. And it’s always that kind of, I’ll be happy always. And sure, would love to be happy always. But there has to be a balance. And as you quite rightly, say, there’s a there’s a yin and yang, there’s a, there’s a positive, there’s a negative a dark and a light, there has to be that balance. But on the energy side, you have positive energy, we have negative energy, the positive we can take away from negative energy is the fact that we recognize it. And if you recognize something, then you can understand what it is. So having that negativity is not necessarily a bad thing, all it does really is remind you that you’re going through this negative situation of negative energy or a little bit of a dark side. So you can do something about it. And I think a lot of people when they go through these sort of dark energies or dark sides, panic, then see it for really what it is, which again, is going back to that intuitive state of being where we can understand what that means, then we can put it right. So it’s not necessarily a negative thing. And in fact, a lot of my clients when they come to see me, and they say I have this negative situation, but so fantastic. Why is that great? Well, if you can recognize this negative, then we can turn into a positive. So it’s always not understanding that there has to be that competing. Because there has to be a balance so that there will be a dark and the light, but it’s a good thing. And all dark areas are there to trip us up summon, most of them actually are there to teach us a lesson or to show us a new way of being?
Is in discussing that type of work with your clients? Is that through your NLP work that you do? Or is it more from a psychic side? therapy side?
That’s a good question, Allison. And you know what, it’s one of the some crosses over quite frequently.
I found out I had this this gift that people call work when I was about 10 years old. So I’ve been using it for many, many years now. And because it’s now a part of who I am, and I’m not one of these people that walk into a room go up to someone and say, oh, Uncle Bob sends His love, it’s not the type of thing that they do. It’s more of a kind of, of being able to tap into people’s energy, psychic energy psyches and then using NLP and I do find that the two crossover and even things like modern things like quantum mechanics, quantum physics, that type of thing. And now realizing that there is this this this psychic energy around so it’s, I basically would say I use intuition and logic, the logic would probably come from NLP. And the intuition would probably come from a psychic point of view. Yeah, definitely.
And a couple of words, and I’d like to just kind of dive into each of them. So can you explain and your understanding or meaning of thinking?
Yes, we all have. We all have a psyche and it’s individual twitch to each of us. And we’re I think sometimes that gets misconstrued as the fact that we have this we have this psyches is almost like a personal energy, it’s our personal identification. It’s something that we don’t use very often now. Because we’ve, we’ve become led more by what society thinks we should be doing and the media things we should be doing, etc. So, we use that kind of individual individualism, and I think that’s where that that psyche is so for me, psyche is that that that individual person or that individual entity that we use, that is individual to us, and not, not to anybody else. So it’s that some is that us is that is that I have us.
And do you think that people work on their psyche? Or is it just something that they naturally have?
It’s something that they naturally have, but I think it’s something which people don’t use or talking to or recognize. It’s that that that personality, which we sometimes bury, because we don’t think we’re allowed to show it, so Um, yeah, it’s that part of us that a lot of us try for no reason try and hide away. So yeah.
I would agree I would Greg just wanted to make sure that like, I would agree with that statement for sure. The other two words that you used, and I guess I’d want to make sure that I understand. And if you could explain the difference of them, because you’re using two different of your practices to kind of tap into it. And instinct and intuition. What difference. What instinct and intuition, other people will say, Oh, this is one of the same thing.
Instinct is something that we have naturally, intuition is something that we pick up as we go through life. For instance, instinct would be would be kind of like a behavior that that’s, that’s with us that we again, going back to psyche, we be trying very, because everything these days is AI technology advanced. But intuition is I feel, it’s something that we have as we as we grow, and as we grow up. And that’s sometimes a little bit of a full part. Because a lot of the issues that we have, or problems or ideas, thoughts, and theories come to us when we’re sort of growing up between naught and seven years old, when we have that feat of brain waves, and everything’s like a sponge, and we’re taking on all this information. So, instinct can get a little bit some woven into what others think we should be behaving or whatever. So the instinct can come sometimes get a little bit mixed up. So what I do with my clients is get them to understand or get them to fall back to who they are. And using their instinct, not the instincts imposed on those on them by others. If again, that makes sense.
It, it does. Um, and I’m I like to kind of reiterate what I think you just said, or at least my translation of it. So instinct would be sort of a native reaction to something that’s already ingrained in us. from wherever we picked up from right. I intuition as something that actually is an external thing. It does an internal thing.
Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. That’s probably a better way to do to describe it. Yes. Yeah.
I don’t know if it’s better, but that’s the way I look at it. Because I’ve heard them, I think a lot of people do think that they’re the same in, they’re not,
I would agree that very much, very much, very much different. But it because they sound the same people get I think, gets getting mixed up between the pair of them. So yeah, definitely, definitely.
So now we’re, since we’re on to, like deep topics, and what is the meaning of what is what is meaning mean? it this is the right way?
What does meaning mean? Your question, What does meaning mean? Gosh, meaning, I think, is what an individual will put on any particular situation, or they find themselves in, it’s the meaning they give that situation, issue problem. Meaning can cover I think, a lot of a lot of areas. So what does meaning mean? Meaning, I think is, again, is basically, how we interpret a particular situation at any particular time. Now, the problem is, with anything that we come across, in in life, it’s not necessarily the thing that happens to us as the meaning that we get it. And that can be quite vast, but again, a lot of it can be inbred within us from an early age. So again, with an early age, we’re picking up how others interact, how parents, siblings, friends, teachers, how they react to certain meaning certain things that are going on in their in their lives, and they take that on. So meaning can mean many things to many people. And it’s and it’s kind of subjective, because I don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s always that thing that we’re seeing, it’s that interpretation of that thing that we’re seeing that gives that thing a meaning. And again, a lot of people use meaning in different ways, but I think it’s really it’s just that individual individuality that we have that helps us cope or deal with whatever it is that we’re facing at that particular time. So, again, it’s an individual thing. But again, it’s an external thing because it’s sometimes Born into us from an early age that we grew up with. So a lot of my clients when they come to see me, and one of the subjects, I’ll bring up and say, Well, what does that mean to you? And it’s quite interesting to see some responses that we get, because often it’s not what their interpreting the issue to be at all. So that’s quite a long winded way of me explaining what I think meaning is.
And it is a super deep question. And one of my mantras and that are for me, like an IM statement that I’ve been working on this year is that nothing has meaning until I give it meaning. Sure. So making sure I apply a meaning that’s meaningful in some way, as opposed to maybe my first like, you know, this is so wrong or so unfair, or, you know, whatever it may be, and how can I apply it in a new way? And having, having the opportunity to kind of reflect on that nothing has meaning until you give it meaning is so powerful? Yeah. It’s such a good self evaluation question.
It is, it’s, it’s, it makes you stop and think and ask questions. And that’s what I love. If you can stop and ask questions, then then you becoming aware and I think that’s, that’s, that’s the way you have to be definitely, definitely like that. I’m gonna write that down later. And yeah.
One of the other things that you were kind of touching on and I’d love for your understanding, especially from the NLP and so neuro linguistic programming practitioner NLP, that’s what that stands for. For anyone who didn’t know that, that is part of like our subconscious, correct.
Can you give us like the 101 of subconscious thinking that we all have subconscious thinking that we all have dinner, what else in there, this again, came out some cracking questions, um, there’s lots of science around what the subconscious is, and I’ve come across in my 40 odd years, if I can just divert a little bit into the psychic side of things. Now I’ve come across is actually during hypnotherapy session that I was conducting, where some are seeking someone back to back the childhood to understand an issue that they had. And one of my better childhood, the things that this particular lady was remembering from the age of four or five was immense. Now, remember, the subconscious takes on about 22 million bits of information every second 20 473 65. It never switches off. It’s clear.
I think that’s why the older we get, the more tired we get, because it’s carrying all this information around with us. It’s, it’s the main, the main, the basic question for me is where is it? Because to carry that amount of information around has to be has to be huge. So what is the subconscious, the subconscious is where everything gets stored, where all the emotions get stored, where all your thoughts, everything that you think, everything that you’ve seen everything that you’ve heard, basically, all five senses get stored away into our subconscious that we use on a daily basis. And it’s basically a reference a huge reference library. So as we’re going through life that comes to sort of situations, the subconscious may sabotage us by saying, Oh, hang on, the last time we did this, that happens, we need to be careful against those gut reactions, but it can sabotage us because it’s always trying to take us away from pain and towards pleasure. So say, for instance, you went rock climbing once, then you didn’t have a great experience on it. And later on in life, you get the chance to do it again. Someone says, Would you like to go rock climbing? You say yes, but anything on it? No, no, actually, I’m not sure because last or they’re not sure is the right thing to do start getting nervous, stuck in a little bit panicky, and then you try and find a way of getting out of it. All your subconscious is doing you’re saying, Yeah, but Finley remember the last time you went you fell off? Do you really want to go through that again? So, you know, just be just be careful. But because we be only thinking what’s plausible, we don’t think in logic. Soon as we think you start thinking about falling off from a subconscious point of view. We start getting panicky and then we start thinking actually, not sure it’s the thing I want to do. Even though from a conscious point of view, you think it’d be fun to try it subconscious is kind of self sabotaging you from just just remember be safe because it’s, it’s not it’s not safe thing to do. So subconscious is there to, to remind us of things that happen in the past to keep us safe from things that are going to happen in the future. But it’s a lot deeper than that. I believe it’s, it’s it contains lots of information from, from way back. So I’m not going to go into things like past lives and all the rest of it. But it’s a huge it’s a huge machine. And I know some scientists have tried to tap into it. They just it’s just fathomless, it just can’t get to the bottom of it. So. So that’s what the subconscious does. But it does have a habit of sabotaging is if we’re not aware. So again, what you said earlier. But the meaning is, we have a thought about doing something that we were not sure that we should be doing or not, it’s part of the subconscious, just getting in our way. So we have to pull out the meaning of why we don’t think it’s a good idea to go rock climbing, become self aware, ask those questions. And then that will stop that that self sabotage from the subconscious.
Do you think that and asking ourselves kind of that, you know, peeling back the layer of the onion questions, that we’re being truthful to ourselves? And the answer’s no.
Well, yes, and no, I don’t think being truthful. I think, I don’t think we’re being fair to ourselves. Probably a better way to, to look at it, because it because things happen so quickly, you know, thousands of a second is that yes, I’m gonna go to Oh, actually, no, I’m not sure. Because we just be reminded of something. Um, yeah, I think I think we’ve been unfair to ourselves that we don’t ask those questions, rather than just saying, Oh, you know what? It’s, it’s not, it’s not going to go she’s who I am. Don’t like rock climbing. I’m not gonna do it. Well, okay. So I think I think being unfair is better than being untruthful? Yeah.
Yeah. That’s fair. Um, you. We were talking about the five senses. And so and you were talking about the fifth sense. So, as humans, how can we tap more into our fifth sensors at Sixth Sense, am I which 1am? I saying Which one? Do you tap into more try to tap into?
Well, we, on a daily basis, we have our five senses, what we hear See, touch, taste and smell.
Okay, so it’s the sixth sense? I think I’m talking.
The Sixth Sense. Yes, I can speak to that people. Sense. The Six Senses is that higher awareness of our five senses. The sixth sense I feel. And science is getting along the same lines, as well as is the subconscious, where you use the subconscious on a daily basis, because the five senses what we’re here to see, touch, taste and smell comes from, comes from the consciousness, that consciousness switches off when we go to sleep. subconscious always keeps going. Now, if on a daily basis, we’re seeing things, we’re hearing things, we’re tasting things, you know, we’re touching things and making sense of our world around those. The Sixth Sense, is when we start asking questions about what we’re hearing, or seeing or touching or tasting or smelling. It’s using that I call it higher intelligence to make sense of where we are now is becoming that self awareness. And I think it’s best described as having a higher self awareness of our environment, who we are, what we’re doing, what we’re hearing what we’re seeing what we’re Bobby touching, basically. So it’s that it’s that highways, how do you tap into that? By being self aware? By asking those questions? Not seeing? If you see something you’re not sure about? Ask it. Question yourself, is it actually the thing I’m seeing is it what I’m actually seeing, or I’m interpret, interpreting it in a different way or the right way or it’s is that kind of that kind of process now, a lot of us don’t use it because it takes too much time. But if you practice it, it happens very, very quickly. And you don’t even know you’re doing it, but you start getting in tune with yourself very, very quickly. So six cents is that is that high self awareness of us on a minute by minute and what we’re doing on a day to day basis.
And in your book, you also talk about the ego And how it purchased the gap for us. I hear often from my clients and it was it my ego that’s getting in the way, you know, is my ego too big? Or, you know, just being reminded that maybe ego is in the way. So can you can you enlighten some of the ways that it actually helps us or hurts us?
Egos I am not a fan of egos. And in fact, when my clients come to see me, certainly the ego that is getting in their way. Ego sometimes helps if you play competitive sport, because it gives you that little bit of a competitive edge, it makes you that kind of a little bit more, just pushes you a little bit harder, just because you want to be better than the next guy or the next girl or whatever it is you’re doing. But in life, it can carry on that way. So you can you can sometimes get carried away with that ego, you can let it sabotage you again and it gets in your way becomes that part of you that says you’re better and bigger and you don’t have to listen because you know it all. And plus, I believe also the ego can hide many self self issues, for instance, in insecurities because you’re using that, that sort of puffing out Jeff just sort of you know, I can cope with anything. I don’t need to listen. That’s when it can I think get in our way. So I think egos I’m not a fan of anyone having an ego apart from competition sport, but even then use lightly but some egos I think can get in other ways.
So maybe I have a misconception does doesn’t everyone have an ego? To some degree?
Totally. And I think to be honest, as that’s because it’s built around insecurities, because in the world these days, you know, you in my, my third book that I’m writing at the moment is it’s called evolution or bust. And it’s how we’ve been using a thinking style for the last 600 years. That’s completely out of date now. And it’s one that says that we need to compete all the time we need to survive, but we’ve got more around us now than we could ever want. So ego in the right way helps. But I’m still not a fan of life. I believe it could be your right most of us do have one. Yeah.
And you’ve mentioned and kind of a in a couple of these topics about how artificial intelligence or AI is impacting us as a humanity.
I’d love your thoughts on that.
Gosh, it could be overnight on that.
You have four minutes. Right?
Let’s go. Okay, four, it has impact. It’s impacting in a good way. Because you will look something up we got Google any phone or whatever it is. But is it taking away? Common sense? is it taking away our ability to think for ourselves? These are some of the big questions. Is it taking away our self or idea of self? Because everything these days is basically governed by technology? It is everything that we have. I mean, I’ve got Wi Fi in my car. I mean, why would I want Wi Fi my car, but if I’ve got it, I’m not sure where we’re going to use it. But some But again, it’s taking away that that that that that use of common sense because it’s far too easy to tap a few keys on there it is and we look at the Great’s of people like Michelangelo, even people like Carl Zhang or the be greats of the past. They didn’t have AI, they’re using their intelligence, their imagination. And I think the more the more that AI is being used, it’s stripping away our imaginations. Our common sense are in curative behaviors. We become cultural based. And there’s some uses for AI Of course there is you know, it helps in especially medicines and you know, even in my mother blesses in an old people’s home and it’s used there to monitor the comings and goings, which I think is great. But there has to be a limit on it because the more we use it, I just feel it’s taking away our ability to use our imaginations take away common sense. Taking away instinct and curative behavior. It becomes comfortable based and As much as you can program it, it’s never going to think, plausibly, it’s always going to think, from away that has been programmed away. So it’s not gonna have emotion, it’s not going to have all these things that we need, I feel the basics we need, as a race of people to get through day to day life. So it’s a, it’s a topic of mine, which I’m quite passionate about, because, as you can tell, because it has its uses, but I’m just scared. It’s just 200 years from now, what are we going to be like, if we’re not thinking for ourselves, using our imaginations? So it’s, it’s got its place, but I’m very skeptical about it.
In, in everything that you just shared, it kind of almost drives home the point that you can’t actually be a human whisperer, if you’re, you know, stuck into the AI and, you know, into a device. And I can almost like relate to, you know, my husband, and I will, you know, be, you know, on our phones doing something, right, and, and our dog is whispering to us, right? They’re just looking at us going like, Are you kidding me?
You’re right. If you go to a restaurant, you’ll see someone acting not necessarily suspiciously, but it’s like, well, what’s up with him? Or what’s up with her why they’re doing this While they’re doing that? Well, if you still have the instincts, you will look you think, okay, he or she’s doing this because of that, or we were losing with becoming, is it? Is it? Is it breeding aggression? Possibly, because we’re not got that instinct to be able to work things out. So for us also, but it’s a subject I’m passionate about and seen in my book. I do go on about because it’s a bit. So yeah.
I am you shared a little bit about what you have that you’re working on, or what’s coming next. And so could you tee that one back up for us again? What is it that you’re writing?
It’s some it’s, it’s a it’s a book called evolution, evolution or bust?
Evolution or best?
Yep, that’s, that’s going to be the title. And it’s around the way I started off by we have a pandemic at the moment, which is COVID. But we have another pandemic, which is, which is sweeping the globe. And that’s thinking, as in we don’t so much these days, because going back to AI, which I won’t cover again, but we’re not thinking for ourselves, because we’re losing the ability to do that. And then some lot of research, and there’s lots of lots of books, there’s a few good books out there, written 50 years ago, even with regards to, are we using a thinking pattern that is now out of date, where we’re still looking, and excuse me for saying I don’t wish to be blasphemous. But we’re still looking at the church, we’re still looking at politicians in the UK and Europe, we still got kings and queens and politicians, and we’re still looking for answers. We’re still waiting for some of the answers that we need, where if you go back further five, 6000 years ago, we had a more of ability to think for ourselves. So the evolution of bust is basically stripping back why we think why we’re doing what we’re doing. Getting the reader to really engage with themselves, getting some exercises, and, and some help into basically getting people to start thinking for themselves and not looking at others for those answers that we have within us, we just need to know where to start looking again.
So it’s a little bit sounds a little bit deep, but it’s not quite as as deep as that. So it’s a little bit and one of my probably most read books on my bookshelf is As a Man Thinketh. And you and it, you know, I don’t know if it’s going to be in line with kind of where you’re going with evolution or bust. But it’s an Old World Book. It’s I think it’s been rewritten to be more updated to these times. But it is about thinking and thoughts or things and the impact that it has on us. So yes, word. I look forward to it. When should it be out and available?
I’m busily squirreled away in at the moment, so I’m hoping it’s going to be out late spring or early summer next year.
Okay, fantastic. Well, I don’t mean to date this episode by saying this but I know that you’re in the UK and that you are 24 hours away from being kind of back in a lot. down. So either that you just tap away on that tape right or that you have, right?
Yes. Oh, yeah, that’s some. That’s the big plan. I’ve got it, you see might be constantly desperate. This is probably in books and papers and stuff. So that’s going to be the plan for the next four weeks. Yeah, but hurry. Well,
I wish you much luck in getting that book to completion. That sounds exciting. And I thank you so much for your time here with us today. It’s been a pleasure. We’ve covered some pretty deep topics. And but I for anyone who’s listening, the human whisper is it’s a, it’s a very intriguing read. So make sure that you pick it up at Amazon. And if folks would like to get in touch with you or follow you online, what is the best way for them to do so?
I am in the process of redeveloping all that because the website, I did have a website, but it crashed. And then some naughty people decided to hack into it. So you wouldn’t believe some of the things that are written on my I was horrified. So we took it down immediately. So that’s been rebuilt. I have an email address, which I’m quite happy to share with you. So which is Finley MacArthur 00 email@example.com. So let’s fill in MacArthur 00 firstname.lastname@example.org. open to any questions. Any questions, any thoughts, theories, ideas? If you agree, disagree, everything’s welcome. Because unless we get criticism, unless we get sort of positive help, then we don’t know if we’re doing the right or wrong things. So that’s we can get through at the moment, once the new website is up and running, which should be in December, then I should put it out there. And so hopefully everyone can I can reconnect. So
Fantastic, and I know that people can also find you on LinkedIn. Correct?
I’m on LinkedIn, Philly McCarthy. Yes, I’m on my LinkedIn. So yes, if you need to, you can get me through there as well.
Unknown Speaker 37:01
Finlay McArthur, thank you so much for your time today and very intriguing and interesting conversation.
Thank you. I really, really appreciate the time and thank you for having me on. Really appreciate it. Thank you.