Modern Updates to Traditional Hiring Criteria with Ken Schmitt

Reading Time: 21 Minutes

Growing companies are struggling to find “perfect fits” for their roles due to outdated hiring criteria. Ken Schmitt helps leaders adjust their hiring criteria to fit their current needs.

Takeaways We Learned from Ken…

Embrace Vulnerability and Transparency

To be truly effective, you’ve got to be transparent, and you’ve got to be vulnerable.” In today’s leadership landscape, authenticity and openness foster trust and connection, enabling leaders to inspire and empower their teams.

Clarify Goals Before Recruitment

Understanding the true objectives of a position is paramount. Ken emphasizes the importance of clarifying the purpose of filling a role, ensuring alignment between leadership, HR, and hiring managers to avoid missteps in recruitment.

Craft Compelling Job Descriptions

A well-crafted job description is akin to effective marketing. It should not only outline responsibilities but also paint a vivid picture of the role’s impact, attracting top-tier talent by telling a compelling story.

Define Interviewing and Decision-Making Teams

Clarity in team roles during the recruitment process is crucial. By delineating between interviewers and decision-makers, organizations ensure a streamlined and effective hiring process, minimizing confusion and maximizing efficiency.

Prioritize Onboarding and Timeline

Successful recruitment goes beyond hiring; it encompasses seamless onboarding and integration. Organizations must be prepared with a structured onboarding process and realistic timelines, ensuring new hires feel valued and empowered from day one.

Adapt Job Descriptions to Evolving Needs

Ken highlights the necessity of revisiting job descriptions to reflect changing business landscapes. Companies must reassess role requirements to ensure alignment with evolving market dynamics, avoiding outdated criteria that hinder recruitment efforts.

Reevaluate Education Requirements

The traditional emphasis on formal education as a hiring criterion is evolving. Ken advocates for a shift towards evaluating skills and experience holistically, acknowledging the diverse sources of knowledge and expertise in today’s workforce.

Soft Skills Are Essential

Soft skills, often subjective but critical, offer insights into a candidate’s mindset and capabilities. Ken emphasizes the importance of assessing attributes like collaboration, communication, and accountability, which significantly impact team dynamics and success.

Understand Your Employment Brand

 Organizations must introspectively examine their employment brand, understanding how employees perceive and interact with the company culture. By aligning recruitment efforts with the organization’s values and ethos, companies attract candidates who resonate with their mission and vision.

Diverse Perspectives Diminish Bias

Inclusive hiring practices involve seeking input from multiple perspectives to mitigate unconscious bias. Ken advocates for diverse interviewing panels to evaluate candidates objectively, fostering a culture of fairness and equity in recruitment processes.

About Ken Schmitt

With 26 years of experience in recruiting and moderating domestic and global leadership panels, Ken serves as CEO and Founder of TurningPoint Executive Search, providing high-touch recruiting for senior level positions. He is the author of The Practical Optimist: An Entrepreneurial Journey Through Life’s TurningPoints and host of the LeaderShi* Happens podcast.

Read the Transcript

Allison: Welcome to the Deliberate Leaders podcast. I am your host and executive business coach Allison Dunn. Our topic today is traditional hiring criteria versus modern needs. Our guest is Ken Schmitt, he brings over 24, excuse me, 26 years of experience in recruiting and moderating leadership panels. Ken serves as CEO and founder of Turning Point Executive Search, providing high touch recruiting for senior level positions. He is the author of the practical optimist, and the host of leadership happens podcast. Ken, thank you so much for joining us here today.

Ken: Thanks. So excited to be here. I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Allison: Me too. I love to kick these off with a deliberate conversation. What would be your number one leadership tip for our listeners today?

Ken: Wow, there’s so many things come to mind? That’s a really good question.

I think really, these days, the I’ll kind of combine the two because in my mind, they go hand in hand, it’s vulnerability, as well as transparency.

And I think anybody who is looking to become a good leader, or a better leader, has got to kind of kind of find a way to, you know, kind of infiltrate, if you will, those areas and get those areas, you know, kind of injected into their own style of leadership, their own management style, their own approach their own communication. To be truly effective, you got to be transparent, and you’ve got to be vulnerable.

Allison: Awesome tip. Thank you. So today, we’re talking about hiring criteria. And, you know, I think that one of the things is that what we were speaking about, even before the podcast started is the fluctuation of like, what happens in the recruiting industry and growth of businesses. And it feels like last year was a little bit of a quieter year. And I even feel unprepared myself, like things clearly have changed. And hopefully, you can shed some light on the things that we need to be thinking about when we are now recruiting in this new year. 2024. So what would be the top five skills that we should drive every new hire, hiring decision to grow our firm?

Ken: Yeah, I think it starts with, you know, really understanding what it is you’re trying to accomplish? What is the goal of filling a given position? That’s number one. I think that that sounds very common sense. It sounds like Well, that’s, that’s a given. But you’d be surprised in our in our executive search practice, how often we talk to leaders and chief HR officers as well, and CEOs that you know, think they want one thing, then they talked to the hiring manager or the board or what have you. And it turns out that what they actually need is something different.

So I think number one certainly is making sure you truly understand what you’re looking for. Number two is developing a relevant but also a compelling job description.

You know, we I always I always joke that I’m a marketing person stuck in a recruiters body. But you know, the ability to attract the right person, the right candidate, is all about your ability to market that position. And if you don’t have the right job description in place, then there’s no way to really position it well, and but also to tell a compelling story. And you’ve got to do that to get the best people in today’s market as number two, I would also say, you know, when you’re deciding on recruiting a position, you’ve got to figure out who is going to be on that interviewing and that decision making team. And it’s two different things, right? The people that are interviewing may have veto power, they may be an executive leadership type capacity, and they have the ability to give a thumbs up thumbs down. But in a lot of cases, you just want somebody that person to be in on the interview, to have another perspective, another set of eyeballs to look at it from a specific angle, if you will, but they may have a contribution, a data point to give to the overall decision, but they may not have an actual veto power.

So clarifying early on, you know what that person’s role is, is very, very important.

I think number four is timeline, right? We always we always joke with our clients that we realize that they’re coming to us to to engage us to help them to fill these higher level leadership positions. Because there’s a sense of urgency. They’re not saying, Hey, can find somebody the next year, they want somebody relatively quickly. But what comes with that question is, do you have a physical space or virtual space set up for that individual? Are you truly ready to have this person come on board and do all the appropriate and necessary onboarding, to get them feeling like they’re part of the team from day one, especially if they’re a virtual hire, you’ve got to go above and beyond what you used to do pre COVID when everybody was it was in person. You have to go above and beyond to really get them to know who they are, what their role is, and really feel comfortable and part of the team so that onboarding and timeline is really important.

And lastly, I would say you know, you need to understand the makeup of your team. One of the things that we talk about a lot with our clients is that they’ll say, Hey, can we need to hire a new VP of marketing? Or a new CEO? Oh, and they’ll send us the job description that was used the last time they hired that position. They haven’t looked at it, they haven’t. Yeah, they haven’t reviewed it very well, right. And instead, they’re just kind of pulling that off the shelf literally and physically, and just plugging in the new role when they haven’t realized, okay, you know, what, we actually don’t need all these things anymore. Our business has changed, our department has changed our market, or our competitors have changed.

So what do we actually need today, in this role, and then more importantly, going forward? Do you want this person to come in and grow into the role? So we’re going to we’re going to kind of hire somebody, that is what we call an up and comer and it’s going to expand into the role? Or do you want somebody who’s already a tried and true that can scale up that already has that experience, experience, you know, running a larger team or a bigger business or whatever it might be. And we want them to have come in having already done the bigger job and ready to do it again, when we get to that point.

Allison: I think all five of those are really great foundational things to be thinking about, even before you even decide to post a job. So great tips. I am curious. And I’m not? I don’t know if you’ll know that the answer to this, but you’re hiring for C level positions. As a recruiter, is there a most? What did you place most last year? What C level? Suite position did you do the most recruiting for?

Ken: Yeah, so just kind of clarify. So we’re recruiting leadership positions, sometimes it’s a C suite title, it could be a CMO, you know, CSO what have you, CEO, but a lot of times they are director or VP level titles. Also, it’s still a leadership role. There’s still overseeing a team definitely. But because we work so much in that middle market and kind of lower middle market space, sometimes the Director of Marketing is reporting to the CEO directly, and has a team of five people. But there’s no true CMO in place. So just a little caveat there. But in terms of it’s such a good question, and it’s vary so much, from year to year, I would say in 2021, we did a lot of hiring around marketing, that was a really, really big piece, companies were trying to figure out what was going on with their marketplace with COVID. You know, they had to change things up, offer up new business lines, accelerate, you know, new business proposals, if you will, or new product launches, accelerate that and pull it forward.

So marketing was really big and 21 and 22, it was a lot of kind of chief sales and sales leadership positions, where companies had marketing in place, they kind of had a little better sense what was happening, you know, quasi post COVID. And now that needs someone to come in to really help them either enhance or completely reshape their go to market sales strategy. Then you look at 2023, which is last year, and it was more about operations, we had a lot of searches that we did that were around operations, and I’ve been recruiting for 20, almost 27 years now.

And operations. When I first started back in the late 90s, that was a very siloed position, you had to do only supply chain or only you’re focused around process improvement or policies and those kinds of things. Fast forward to today and 2024. And operations has to be able to collaborate with and communicate with an impact sales and marketing and it in the factory floor. And the focused folks that are on the front lines, you know, an operator, a truly effective operations leader has to be able to, you know, understand all those different facets of the business, and understand the ripple effects of decisions that they’re making in operations, how that trickles out to the rest of the organization. So operations is certainly a very, very important aspect of hiring right now.

Allison: Oh, that’s fascinating. I love the fact that you kind of have seen that trend towards things do you have any guesses as to what the position of the year will be for 2024?

Ken: There will obviously I mean, AI is I think the two most overused letters in the in the entire globe, right, everybody says AI this AI that.

But I think in all in all seriousness around that a lot of need is out there around data scientists.

And whether you are an individual contributor, we call them icy roles where you’re actually doing the analysis, or you’re at the strategic level, you know, Chief Data Officer, Chief growth officer or some newer positions that we’re seeing out there. And their role is to really not just extract the data, but to synthesize it and figure out how to apply what the data is telling you, you know, to the business. And what if anything, can you relegate to AI? What will that free up potentially on the on the transactional tactical side of the ledger that will then free up the leaders to be more strategic and to spend more time mentoring and managing and developing their teams and less time you know, man To the bureaucracy. So AI and data in general is a big, big demand out there right now.

Allison: Ken, what are the biggest misconceptions about what hiring criteria should look like? And which ones need to be left behind from what we’ve been doing?

Ken: That’s, that’s a really big question. Where do I start, in terms of I would look at in terms of criteria, but also process, I think it’s really kind of one in the same. So from that perspective, job descriptions, as I mentioned before, are really important these days. Because, you know, so many people change jobs in 2021, and the great resignation, right, and now fast forward several years, and people are still changing jobs, it’s still at a higher rate than usual, as far as voluntary quits, and job changes, but nowhere near the record pace of 2021 and early 22. So to bring those you know, high achieving candidates into the mix, you’ve got to have a compelling job description. And your job description has to be different than what it was before, not just in terms of content, as I described earlier, but more focused around the layout, it’s less around list of responsibilities and list of you know, requirements for skill set, and more around, you will impact you will impact our company in this way, you will excel in this role. If you have this, right, here’s how you will collaborate with other parts of the organization. Those are the things from a process perspective.

And then, you know, this, this, in my mind is still around kind of process and tactics. But it’s also a bigger question around education, you know, do you really need a four year college degree for every position. And the default knee jerk reaction for decades and decades has always been Yes, this is a any kind of a leadership role, you got to have a four year degree just to check that box. But the reality is, you know, the definition of knowledge, and the source of knowledge has changed dramatically. It used to only come from a traditional brick and mortar for your education system or institution. Now it comes from, you know, gig engagements that comes from Fiverr, or comes from, you know, doing something with a lot of gig type roles, also, whether it’s technology or otherwise, otherwise, you know, I just I do volunteering for junior achievement with high schoolers.

And I just came from a class earlier today, and of the class of 38 people 10% of the folks that were there. So for people with are already running their own business, and these are 17 year olds. Right. So I mean, they are getting that, yeah, they’re getting that experience. They’re selling apparel, one has a thrift store, one has an apparel store for athletes, one does a lot of work on Etsy and on RedBubble. So you know, is that experience less relevant or less powerful? Because it didn’t come from an actual, you know, college? No, not at all. In fact, you have to learn how to be an entrepreneur and run your business, I would put even a little bit more value in that. So back to your question. So the process of hiring and the tactics of hiring has to change along with how we hire and when what we are hiring, what are we looking for, in terms of that ideal candidate?

Allison: You have a hard and fast rule. I mean, you kind of brought up the idea of like, you know, is it necessary to like mandate a college degree? When, when is it a deal breaker, or dealmaker? And how should companies be thinking about education where and where knowledge comes from?

Ken: Yeah, I think it really depends upon what again, what you’re trying to solve by filling this, whatever the open position happens to be. Right. And in some cases, that may just be a frontline worker where you need you need a worker bee, and that’s understandable. And those situations as a college should be really necessary. Probably not, you know, maybe you would have liked to hire somebody with 10 years of experience. But if somebody has three or four years is probably okay.

All so it depends a little bit on the on the level of the position. But again, I would look at, you know, education, in and of itself does not solve your problem when you’re hiring. It’s what does that candidate bring to the table that came from their education, whether it’s a traditional college, whether it was a purely online virtual college, or whether it was because they started working at age 15.

They never got a college degree because they got an offer right out of high school. And they’ve been working, they worked at Xerox or at j&j or at p&g, or what have you. And they’ve learned an awful lot over that time, but they never actually got a four year degree. So taking a step back and understanding what are we looking for? What is it about knowledge that we’re looking for? To fill this position that has to be part of the conversation? And honestly, it hasn’t been for many, many, many decades.

Allison: You shared that you’re filling leadership roles inside of companies. And so I just want to kind of pivot and talk a little bit about the soft skills that we try to identify and look for when we’re filling those types of roles. Do you have any tips on how we can They count for that in candidates. So what how do we go about that?

Ken: Yes, I mean, I’ve been recruiting for a very, very long time and soft skills is always something that’s very subjective. You know, what does it mean to be a fit with our culture? What does it mean to be a good communicator, we have an exercise that we go through with all of our candidates before we present and we usually talk to about 75 ish or so candidates for each search that we do. And we narrow it down, we present our shortlist of the best, you know, four to eight candidates, no matter what the position is. And a lot of what we talked about with the candidate is not just the hard technical skills, but also how they think. And I think soft skills are another way of saying, you know, how do you think, right? Do you? Do you collaborate? Are you a better collaborator? Are you a better tactician? Somebody else brings you an idea, a plan, a strategy, or whatever it might be. And you’re really good at executing and taking that plan and the way that you think, and your soft skills lend themselves to you working independently, right?

Or are you somebody who’s more of a strategist, right, who is better at coming up with the ideas, and you because of that are a collaborator, your soft skills, strengths? Are collaboration, communication, talking to other people, you know, bringing other folks in from other departments to get their ideas? That’s a difference in terms of soft skills. I think, you know, some of the obvious ones are, you know, you know, accountability is really important, but also taking ownership for mistakes that were made, and not owning all the great stuff. And then, you know, laying blame when things go bad. That’s also a soft skill. If you’re, if I’m interviewing, like, candidate, for example. And when they talk about all the successes in their business, it’s always I did this, I did that I, I impacted this. And when it comes to failures, when I ask them about challenges that they had, or things that they that they encountered that were that were difficult, and they say, Well, they did this, or they did that, yeah, that team did this, or they, they were you know, infringing upon this or whatever. Maybe that’s a bit of a of a indication that they’re lacking some of those soft skills for sure.

But we have an exercise that we go through with every client and with every candidate for every search, and we ask the candidate to give us three examples of their last three deals, you know, quote, unquote, deals, whatever that looks like, whether you’re a warehouse manager, whether you’re in marketing, whether you’re in sales, whether you’re in biotech, and you’re on the on the bench, the last three projects, engagements, deals that you did talk us through those, what were those like?

And as you get into that conversation, you’re going to hear more and more about how the person thinks, and what truly are their soft skills? Where do they really excel in those areas? And how do they best operate, are they you know, if you’re a company that is pre IPO, or about to go from phase one to phase two clinical trials, or you’re about to release the new generation of your best software product, you know, and you’re Go go go 60 hours a week, you’re working a lot of hours, hours in the evenings and weekends, you know, and you’re talking to a candidate who talks about how important it is for them to have their weekends to themselves, how important it is for them to have things buttoned up for them to be able to work in a more structured, less chaotic, less fluid environment. But you know, as a hiring manager, that your environment is all about fluidity. And it’s things change on a dime, then you’ve got to really make sure you’re understanding that and asking those questions to match up those soft skills, and the right culture fit, if you will, for that organization and for that position.

Allison: Great tips. And I think those are really valuable questions that the hiring manager you can listen for, and have a better understanding. You shared some, I think critical things for organizations to be thinking about as they are going to be doing a job posting, and that was the employment brand that they’re putting forward. Can you talk through what you mean by that? And what companies should consider when they think about what brand? Do they are they are they really putting out there for the company?

Ken: Yeah, I think it should start with talking to your current employees and asking them how they would define the employment brand. And some companies are really good at that. They even have, you know, a career section on their website that includes some video testimonials of current employees, or may just be you know, text, testimonials, but a little bit of a snapshot into what it’s like to work there. But it goes but it goes beyond that. And talking to current employees really gives you a really good insight into what that looks like. So I think understanding the employment brand is all about, you know, who are the kinds of people and what are the types of profiles that really do well in our company. Again, are they later stage executives? Are they earlier stage really hungry employees? Are they folks that that come from our competitors? Where are they folks that come from are a completely different sector and they truly bring new ideas, new innovation, more disruptive, you know, ideas into our company? Again, back to my car meant a few minutes ago, you know, do they thrive more so in a fluid environment where things are a bit chaotic, maybe a bit unstructured, where you’re going, you know, hard charging on Project aid today, and then tomorrow, you’re like, Okay, I got to change course completely. And now we’re going all about Project B, you know, what is that? What does that operating style look like? And how do things get done?

People always say, you know, that that culture is not the what gets done, but how it gets done? Is it is it a very, you know, top down kind of an organization where, you know, the directives come from on high and everybody’s expected to fall in line. And that’s not necessarily a right or a wrong thing. It’s less common these days than what it used to be. But that’s one way or is it more bottom up. And with every senior engagement decision, you know, senior leaders are asking for it, and really inviting input from the lower level employees, the frontline people to get a good understanding of what it is that that’s missing, or what they should consider when making that hire and filling that. So all those things really comprise a company’s employment brand. But I think a lot of companies don’t even think about it. They think about their brand in terms of their product and their service on the outside. They don’t think much about Hey, what is our brand internally? What do people think about us whether or not you have an employment engagement survey? That’s, that’s beside the point. But what are our team members? Think of us? Why do people stay here as long as they do? Or why do people leave consistently, after only six months or a year with the company? What is what is right or wrong with how we’re operating? And that that in and of itself is your employment brand?

Allison: That’s obviously really good things to be thinking about. I know that you have a very deep history in doing recruiting. I’m curious, do you do it for any particular industry sector or narrow niche? Or is it just broad?

Ken: Yeah, so our niche is more on the functional side than it is on the industry side. So we have, you know, large clients that are in the automotive space. For example, Kia and Hyundai, America are our two largest clients. And you know, they’re obviously multibillion dollar automotive companies. But then we have companies that are $20 million, that companies that you would never have heard of, unless you happen to be in their space. But yeah, we have companies that are technology, SAS and the cyber and as well as manufacturing, automotive biotech, you know, across the board, when it comes to industry, but where we really thrive and back to knowing our employment brand, you know, our brand and our niche, our expertise is functionally right. And so that’s functional around sales, leadership, marketing leadership. I mentioned operations leadership earlier, we do a lot of HR leadership positions, and then C suite, which is a president, CEO or CEO position. So those kind of, you know, four or five verticals, functional verticals, is really where we thrive. Fantastic.

Allison: Is there any guidance or I guess, recommendations that you would suggest to set the expectation if a if someone who’s listening today knows that they’re going to be recruiting for a leadership level functional position in their company? How much time should they allow for from? Start? Yes, pull the trigger. Let’s hire and getting that process done to having someone on board?

Ken: So are sure yeah, that’s a good question. Our and that’s changed over the years, right? Pre COVID? If you’d asked me that question, I would say it was our average time to fill a position from the day we start to the present day, that person shows up physically or virtually in the job was about 48 days, right? So a little over six weeks. Fast forward to today and 2024. And it’s about it’s about 75 days, and so it’s longer. So depending upon the level of the position, and of course, you know, on what the skills are the looking for back to the job description, right? If they’re in a market like this, I mean, I’m based here in San Diego. And if I have a client, that’s automotive, for example, I know I’m not going to be recruiting from San Diego. There’s no automotive companies here.

So it depends on where you’re going to what market you’re going into. But you know, for typical leadership role senior leadership VP or above, usually you want to, you know, assume it’s going to be about anywhere from 90 to 120 days, from the day you launch the day the person shows up.

And that largely depends upon how much bandwidth your internal team has. That’s honestly, what’s why a lot of clients come to us they’ve tried to fill a job on their own. And there’s such a sense of urgency and they’re already spread so thin. You know, so many internal recruiters and HR folks have so many wrecks on their plate already, that the real high impact roles they don’t have time for. So they come to us and they say, Hey, can we offload this to you? I always say that we’re you know, we’re not your GP to tell you if you have a cold but when you need a surgeon, a real specialist to go in and focus that’s why companies come to us.

Allison: Fantastic and are you willing to permanent and or share They’re a tip or two about, like, where do you? Where do you get the most candidates from? Like, where do you boost? Where do you place your ads, especially at these levels?

Ken: Sure. So we don’t do any paid ads at all, we don’t, we don’t use any job boards at all. We use LinkedIn. As you might expect. That’s kind of the Bible these days when it comes to recruiting for internal or for search firms like ours. But we have three sources, we go to our database, because we are so specialized, we’ve been doing this for a long time, my company is 17 years old, we have a lot of great people in our database already. That’s number one. Number two is our referral network. And this is something as a small aside, I would say, companies that don’t already have a referral program in place should put one in place. I mean, honestly, I mean, you know, I’d love for you to come to me and engage us. But you can save that fee, by having an employment refer an employee referral program in place, if you know, pay your employees 1000, or a couple $1,000 to bring you really good talent, that’s a great way to get good talent, and be it’s a great way to really you know, engage your employees to help fill those gaps. And they already know the employment brands, but they’re only going to bring you people that they know would fit into that brand. So that’s a parenthetical statement would make. So that’s a really important.

That’s number two is a referral network. And number three is LinkedIn. You know, when I got into recruiting, there wasn’t a LinkedIn back in the late 90s, then as LinkedIn, you know, became more and more prominent, it became the kind of methodology, if you will, kind of the mechanics of recruiting changed. It used to be all about how do you figure out who is the best person to go after for this given position? Who are the top 50 CMOS in the automotive space, whatever it is. Now, with LinkedIn, it’s much easier to find out who those people are. Now the secret sauce is all about the messaging. How do you get any of those top 50 people to respond to your outreach, you have to know your client, you have to know what they’re looking for. You have to know what makes that candidate tick, also, so the messaging is really, really important.

Allison: Good, thank you for sharing that insight. I think I would imagine that having access to LinkedIn versus the 90s is just an exponentially easier to. Yes. I am just going to wrap this up. Is there any final recruitment and or hiring tip that I have not thought to ask a view that would be some gold you’d like to sprinkle on to our deliberate leaders out there?

Ken: I think it definitely is important, especially in today’s market to have, you know, several sets of eyeballs to look at a candidate to talk to a candidate before you make that hiring decision. I think you know, again, it’s tough, it’s a it’s a confidential search. Granted, that’s a difficult situation to be in. But barring that, really getting a few different perspectives on a given candidate. And again, clarifying whether or not those folks are just going to give you a data point or have veto power is really important. But you know, everybody comes at it with a different lens.

And you know, you might see something in Candidate A, that somebody else says, Hey, I like Candidate B better. And it’s really important. And I also think that really, if you do that, it helps to eliminate, you know, unconscious bias, we all want to be with hanging out with and hire people that sound like us that have similar tastes that you can hang out with and have a beer with after work kind of thing. But that’s not what you’re trying to do when you’re trying to fill a position. You’re trying to hire the best person for that role. That best person may have gone to a different school or maybe no school, they may come from your industry or a totally different industry. And they may not even look at look or sound at all like you and having several people on the interviewing panel will help to at least diminish if not eliminate that unconscious bias.

Allison: That is a fantastic closing tip. So thank you very much for that. Can I super appreciate your time today. I hope that recruiting in 2024 is a stellar year for you.

Ken: Thank you very much. It’s great being here.

Allison: Thank you.

I'm Allison Dunn,

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