The Art of Social Media with Guy Kawasaki

Reading Time: 21 Minutes

Guy Kawasaki talks about corporate evangelism, the evolution of social media, new social media opportunities, and how to be an effective advisor. He also shares his thoughts on how to accept and stay focused during sad and stressful events such as the Covid-19 pandemic.

After the Interview

About Guy Kawasaki

Guy is the Chief Evangelist of Canva. He’s the author of Enchantment, The Art of the Start, The Art of Social Media, and many other books. He recently launched the Remarkable People Podcast and published his most personal book, Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life.

Read the Transcript

Allison:  Welcome to Deliberate Leaders. I am Allison Dunn, and today we have a fantastic guest. We have Guy Kawasaki, who is the Chief Evangelist of Canva, which is our marketing teams absolute favorite program to use for all of our graphic design and social media aspects and anything that we have to make look pretty, and he’s also the author of Enchantment, The Art of the Start, The Art of Social Media, as well as many other books. He recently launched a podcast also “Remarkable People”, and I’m super excited to pick your brain a little bit about that later. Guy, thank you so much for joining us.

Guy:  We’re all quarantine; what else is there to do? It’s not like we can go surfing or anything.

Allison:  That’s right. I feel honored. I’m having great access to people who I might not otherwise have access to. So I appreciate that making the most of it myself.

Guy:  Yes, good.

Allison:  “Corporate Evangelist”, this is a title you had while you were at Apple, and now at Canvas. That sounds so angelic. Tell me what you get to do?

Guy:  Well, “Evangelism” comes from a Greek word meaning “Bringing the good news”. So what an Evangelist does is bring the good news. I’ve brought the good news more than twice in my career but at the beginning of my career, I was a Macintosh Evangelist. So my job was to bring the good news of Macintosh, how it increases people’s creativity and productivity. Now, at the end of my career of Chief Evangelist for Canva, and the good news of Canva is that it has democratized design so that everyone can create great graphics and communicate better.

Allison:  That’s awesome. I’m curious, if a small company saves such as myself, whereas we’re hiring for a Chief Evangelist, what would that person be doing?

Guy:  Well, that person would be spreading the good news of what the company does, and so I think one of the keys to Evangelism is the company has to be doing good stuff. I mean, it’s hard to evangelize crap [phonetic 02:27]. So that’s probably 80% or 90% of the battle.

Allison:  So it’s really up to the leadership to give the Evangelist good things to promote,

Guy:  Or the evangelists to find another job? Yes.

Allison:  That’s fine. Do you think that all marketers should consider themselves to be evangelists for the companies they work for?

Guy:  Ah! there’s a lot of ways to unpack that question. Just considering yourself as an evangelist doesn’t mean you are an evangelist. So one of the key differentiators between Evangelism and traditional sales and marketing is usually an evangelist has the other person’s best interests at heart. So when I tell you to use Canva, don’t get me wrong, it’s good for me. But I also believe in my heart that it is good for you, you know, if I tell you to use Canva, you will create better graphics, and you will communicate better. If it’s traditional sales and marketing, it may be more about, “Well, I need to make my quota, I need to make my commission I need to make my bonus, and that’s very different.”

So to get back to your question, in a perfect world, yes, all marketers and all salespeople would be evangelists. But it’s one thing to say I’m an evangelist, but you have to walk the talk, and that’s a 2-part thing:

  1. First, the product, the service does have to make the world a better place and make your customers life better.
  2. And then you have to believe that it communicates that in a manner that is not simply about your income.

Allison:  That’s fair. I think that’s a good distinction that you’ve made. In the book that you wrote the Art of Social Media, you wrote that in 2014, I believe? A lot has changed in the landscape since then, for sure. Some things don’t even exist anymore like Google Play [phonetic 04:32], but not.

Guy:  Minor detail.

Allison:  Minor detail. But you know, it’s good to see that they can make the shift and not stick to something that doesn’t work, also. So are there any broad cultural shifts in social media since you wrote that book that we could just kind of chat about for a little bit right now. What have you seen and what do you think is coming?

Guy:  Well, certainly platforms have come and gone. So when we wrote the book, Google Plus was the rage. To this day, I don’t understand why Google gave up on it. But that’s a different discussion, and Tik Tok did not exist back then. So, those are two very big changes. I think social media is harder to use, and maybe less effective than ever. So, back when I used to tweet something, in 2014, there would be many more retweets and discussion and everything, and now, the volume is so high, the noise is so high, it’s very difficult to break through, and I can tell you, because I am constantly marketing my podcasts through social media; Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter. The leading source of referral traffic is LinkedIn. So I think LinkedIn is maybe the most effective social media platform today for sales, marketing and evangelism.

Allison:  Right. I would concur we do executive coaching and leadership development and LinkedIn is the best far, the platform where I’m connecting with true authentic audiences who need what I offer. I agree. Social media with the whole go live now where that’s an option?

Guy:  Yes.

Allison:  I’m using video kind of instantaneously on the spot gives everyone the show their disposal, which is funny. Do you have any advice as to how and when to choose to go live?

Guy:  Yes. So, I go live rather randomly, it depends on how busy I am that day, depends on how long it takes me to set everything up. I went live yesterday at 2:00 p.m. or so Pacific, on LinkedIn, and you know, one very simple thing is that when you go live at 2, 3,4, 5 p.m. Pacific, most of the people who are going to be watching are in Asia and India, and if your practice is for U.S executives, probably should not go live after noon, Pacific time. So, that’s very simple, and it’s interesting, so when I go live, I get between 5,000 and 15,000 views. This is LinkedIn, a view is defined as I think watching 3 seconds, which, you know…

Yes, I agree.

So yesterday, I went live, I got 6000 views on LinkedIn, but I was live simultaneously, I use a product called social life, and I go live simultaneously on LinkedIn, Twitter periscope, and Facebook. So let’s say All of that adds up to 20,000. So 20,000 People who viewed it.

Guy:  Now, I made some really serious appeals, the reason why I’m doing this, and what I want you to do is subscribe to my podcast. So I can tell you with total certainty, the needle didn’t move when I told 20,000 people to subscribe, so I’m not trying to be hold downer on social media. What I’m trying to tell you is that;

  1. a) I don’t know how to use it anymore, maybe?

Or

  1. b) It is just not that effective anymore.

Allison:  I love your honesty?

Guy:  I’ll tell you one more story. I’ll tell one more story. So for the podcast, I also did an advertising program, and the advertising program was on a platform, obviously, that ran ads, and the click through rate on my ads was about half a percent. You know, I got the advertising, told me that that’s roughly almost 2 times better than their average. So they were just thrilled that I was getting this. Yes, half a percent was twice as good as usual. That boggles my mind.

Let’s say I had a million impressions, and a half percent of a million is 10,000 click through, and of those 10,000 click through, that doesn’t mean they subscribe. It just means they clicked. So, divide that by 10 or 20. So I, I’m telling you that I don’t know how advertising works.

Allison:  But yet you’re having tremendous success if you were to look at followers and fans, and all of those things.

Guy:  I mean, since we’re going on the transparency route, I would not make that claim. So, my podcasts gets between 10 to 20,000 downloads per episode now. I’ve been told that that’s in the top 1% or 2%. But you can’t make a business on 10 to 50,000 downloads, because the math is that you get $30 per CPM. So that means 30 bucks per 1000. So, let’s take the medium number of 15,000. So 15,000 has 15000s though. So you take 15, and you multiply by 30, and you get 450 bucks. 450 bucks for episode is not a business.

Now I’m late to podcasting. My podcast has only 18 episodes so far. So I don’t know, the future of my podcast. If you look at people like Joe Rogan, and he gets 4 and a half million or something, or 5 million or whatever he gets. I honestly don’t know how I can get to 5 million, and now you could say, “Well, maybe it’s the quality of the podcasts”. But if you look at my guests, I mean, show me a podcast with better guests than mine.

Allison:  You have phenomenal guest.

Guy:  So yesterday, I had Gary Vaynerchuk. People you may have heard of like Jane Goodall, Margaret Atwood, Andrew Yang, Steve Wozniak, Sir Ken Robinson. Next week is Steven Pinker. I tell people, I’m NPR without the pledge drive. So the answer is, I don’t know. If anybody tells you they know, they’re lying, either lying or they’re delusional. They don’t know.

Allison:  That’s fascinating. I created a list of questions like I wanted to, pick your brain on and I feel like that we may have just gotten the answer. I, as a small company, which you know, I am, and many of the companies that I counter also small. I feel like we’re missing something, and you’re telling. [unintelligible 13:00]

Guy:  I don’t think you’re missing any. I think it’s just a slog now. Now, much of the numbers I’m telling you was pre pandemic. So, I wish I could build an intellectual case that everybody’s quarantine. So they’re all sitting at home watching videos and listening to podcasts. But that’s not my experience so far. Is that yours?

Allison:  No, I think people are binging anything on Netflix, or Google, or they’re binge watching the terrible news of everything that’s going on constantly, and I’ve done almost none of either of those things. Okay, so we’re not missing anything. I guess that is super helpful to know.

Guy:  Well, maybe just the 2 of us are missing something and everybody else knows.

Allison:  I’m not sure. I’m super fascinated about some of the things that you get to do, and so I’m going to come back to your podcast. But before we get there, my understanding is that you serve on the board of the Wikimedia Foundation.

Guy:  I am used to, I’m no longer on that board. Yes, sorry.

Allison:  How did you get that opportunity?

Guy:  A headhunter reached out to me. So they use the headhunter to find board members, and obviously, I knew what Wikipedia was, but I had no big involvement. I wasn’t a big member of the community prior to that, and that was a fascinating experience, to put it mildly.

Allison:  [crosstalk 15:48] it’s proper to ask.

Guy:  Oh, yes, it’s a whole different world in Wikipedia lab. I had one idea of what they do and how it works, and it was quite different from the reality. The gist is that from the outside looking and I thought that Wikipedia’s customer was, quote-unquote, mankind, it was the universe of people seeking knowledge. But many people in the Wikipedia movement, view their customer as Wikipedia, so, it is a community, for the community. So the customer is the person who is editing Wikipedia, as opposed to the random person who is reading Wikipedia.

To use an analogy, that would be like Apple saying;

“Our customer is the iOS and Macintosh developer, as opposed to you and I using a phone or a computer.”

So that was a major unexpected insight for me.

Allison:  I’m trying to wrap my mind around that too. I can apply to Apple; I’m trying to like figure out how to have what that be in my business. So it would be the coaches being the customer versus the clients being the customer? And that’s right?

Guy:  Yes.

Allison:  Okay. All right.

Guy:  Do you coach coaches, or do you coach people?

Allison:  Both.

Guy:  I mean, obviously, coaches are people but…

Allison:  I coach coaches, and leaders as well, who are not coaches.

Guy:  But in your case, your coach clients are truly your clients.

Allison:  Yes, absolutely 100%.

Guy:  So, that’s not quite the same. But unless if you measure your success through the impact your coaches have on people, then that would be closer to that model. But Wikipedia is a unique place.

Allison:  Interesting. So I guess my next question is, what causes are most important to you. What’s driving you these days? Where are you making your impact?

Guy:  Well, Canva is one. So I’m Chief Evangelist there, and we’d like everybody to make every graphic they ever made in their life with Canva. You know, we have small goals, and I’m also a Mercedes Benz Brand Ambassador, which is not the worst job in the world.

Allison:  No. Which one you drive?

Guy:  It’s a great story. I drive with A-class. So the A-class is not the smallest because Mercedes makes the Smart car, which is smaller. But if you look at the line of typical Mercedes with the logo Mercedes Benz, as opposed to a smart car, which is sort of a sub brand, the Mercedes line goes like A, B, C, D, E, I think the next one is S. So I am driving the least expensive highest mileage Mercedes. Although I could have anyone and I have had. I’ve had S-classes. I’ve had the absolute top, and I’m now at the absolute bottom entry level. I went to the A-class because I wanted higher mileage, I thought I needed to set a good example.

Allison:  That’s a good choice. You can go for Mercedes in my opinion, I’ll take any model [unintelligible 18:41]. So I’ve kind of staying on the same path. You are an advisor too I assume a number of different companies and I run board of advisors, and also my clients serve as advisors to other companies, as well. What advice would you give other people who are serving in that advisory capacity position on how to be effective and helpful to who you’re advising?

Guy:  I don’t consider myself an expert in advising. Probably the most important thing is to be blunt and honest. It’s not necessarily a popularity contest. This doesn’t mean you should run people over but it should be all about tough love. For example, right now, some of these companies are asking me what should we do about the pandemic and I’m saying, if you have any inventory in stock, turn it to cash and it used to be that, well, we don’t want to ruin our brand by discounting too much, we don’t want to look like we’re having to sell stuff to tarnish our brand, and I’m telling you right now this pandemic, this is a contest of last man standing.

Guy:  So yes, you can preserve your brand right up to the point you die. That’s not good for your brand either.

I think right now, not sins, but the saying goes, “All sins are going to be forgiven.” That’s true, that no one’s going to remember. “Oh, yeah, in the middle of the pandemic, they discounted their stuff 50%. So, it must not be good quality.” At the end of this, pandemic people are going to say, “Oh, that company still here or not?” That’s it.

Right now, for example; the iPad and Macintoshes that Apple introduced about 3 or 4 weeks ago, they’re already being discounted on Amazon. So there was a time you’d say, “Oh, my God! Apple can’t let that happen. They have to ensure that it’s full retail price, and what’s it mean, when an iPad is just [unintelligible 21:17] discounted? You know, this tarnishing Apple’s brand?” Well, my logic would behave that’s a different world. Nobody’s going to remember that. All they got to remember is; “Apple still here”.

 

Allison: 

Yes, I think that’s really good advice. From what is going on right now is Cash is King and how you market it and how you maintain longevity of your business is liquidating it in a lot of ways.

Very honest, in our advisory, we call it deliberate honesty. Right?

Guy:  Okay.

Allison:  So that you hear the things that other people aren’t willing to share with you. So let’s talk about your podcast. So “Remarkable People”, a 62nd pitch on how you position it, so that people are gonna want to just jump right off of this one and go subscribe. Tell me that.

Guy:  Well, first of all, it’s remarkablepeople.com if you want to go and subscribe. So it is a collection of interviews of me with remarkable people. Now, when I say remarkable people, I’m not saying rich people, or famous people, I’m saying remarkable people. So you could be unknown and poor and remarkable. I don’t have any private equity billionaires on it, for example.

So I have searched out and because of my work with Macintosh in my whole career, I have a lot of connections, and another little sub lesson is, it’s not necessarily who you know, but who knows you. So there are many people I can reach, and they’ll say, “Oh, yes, you know, I’ve used a Macintosh since 1990. I know who you are”. So they know who I am. But they don’t know me personally.

Anyway, I have been able to amass a collection of interviews of remarkable people talking about their career and how they became remarkable and their lessons in life, and this literally includes Jane Goodall, Steve Wozniak, Margaret Atwood. I’m going to have both Kristy and Roy Yamaguchi if you’re into figure skating or eating, Shaun Thompson (surfer) Chris Bertish paddled across the Atlantic Ocean. Stephen Wolfram is the physicist who got his PhD at 20, and the MacArthur Award at 21. So I’m enabling people to draw the wisdom from these remarkable people. It’s an interview series, and if you listen to any of them, the interviewee is about 95%, and I’m about 5%. So this isn’t about a 50/50 exchange, where I’m trying to position myself as remarkable. This is my goal in these interviews is to bring out the remarkable this of my guest, it is not about me.

Allison:  I resonate with that. It’s bringing out the awesomeness of who I’m speaking to. So totally agree. I’ve just subscribed myself, I’m kind of struggling as to which one to feature because they were going to be allowed to incorporate one into our Deliberate Leaders, which I think Remarkable People are Deliberate Leaders also. Which one would you suggest? I know, I can’t ask you what your favorite be?

Guy:  Who’s your primary listener?

Allison:  My listeners are either true entrepreneurs who are running successful businesses or who envision that for themselves and in the future.

Guy:  Tech or non-tech or anything.

Allison:  Anything. I’d say probably more non tech than tech.

Guy:  Well, first of all, you don’t have to limit yourself to one, but for pure entrepreneurship, I would say is probably the Steve Wozniak interview. 4 principles that any of your entrepreneurs can apply, or marketing evangelism and sales for social psychology.

How to influence and persuade people. It will be Bob Cialdini. So the Bob Cialdini interview [phonetic 25:43] is very tactical and very useful.

Allison:  Awesome.

Guy:  One more thing. If I just touch my face, I’m not supposed to touch my face. So if it’s about integrating work and life, then it would be Arianna Huffington.

Allison: [crosstalk 26:08] but you said I could have all three.

Guy:  Listen, at this point, they’re recorded, they’re there, and my theory is by offering it to you which literally I’m going to give you the file. You’re going to publish it. Now their audio only is that all right?

Allison:  Absolutely. [unintelligible 26:31] podcast is audio only, and then I have a YouTube channel where our listeners do enjoy watching because that was my original platform I started on.

Guy:  So, my thinking is that I would like you to position this as bonus content. So this is an extra for your subscribers, and hopefully they listen to the Steve Wozniak or Bob Cialdini [phonetic 26:57] or Arianna Huffington, and they say, “Wow, that was really a great podcast. I’ll go subscribe”. So this is one of the principles of evangelism, which is you have to let people test drive your cause.

Allison:  Yes, I love that. That’s, that’s awesome. Well, I am looking forward to making my way through the 20 episodes.

Guy:  Yes

Allison:  That’s awesome. My next question is a little bit more about life lessons of yourself. So you recently published a book that my understanding is it’s more on the personal side.

Guy:  Yes.

Allison:  It’s titled Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life. Your favorite story that you get a chance to share in this book and can you share it here?

Guy:  Yes, so for people who have not read the book, which is most people, this is a collection of stories of my life. It’s like Chicken Soup for the Soul, except all guys’ stories. It is not a memoir, is not an autobiography. Because I’m not Nelson Mandela, or Mother Teresa, and I think when most business people write a memoir, an autobiography, it’s all about “Yes, look at me. I’m perfect. I did everything”. Which is total bullshit. So it’s not like that, and I tell stories of my life that were formative in my life. I tell you the story, and then I tell you the lesson. So there’s no story in there that doesn’t have a lesson.

By definition, if it got in there, there’s a lesson. How long have we got on this podcast? Because somebody story it takes a while to explain them.

Allison:  I have you for another 26 minutes if [unintelligible 28:50]

Guy: OK. So my wife and I– I think we had one child at that point. We were living in San Francisco on Union Street, which is a very nice part of San Francisco where Union Street dead ends into the Presidio. So it’s a nice place.

So one day I was out of my house in the front yard, and I was cutting our bougainvillea, I was trimming our bougainvillea hedge, and an older white woman comes up to me and says, “Do you do lawns also?” And I said to her, “Because I’m Japanese, you think I’m the yard man, right?” She says, “No, it’s just that you’re doing such a great job trimming your hedge. I thought I’d ask if you’re doing lots”. So now, there’s the first lesson in this story is, “Beware of social profiles.” Just because I’m Japanese doesn’t mean I’m the gardener. I actually own that house. There’s an even better story, or an even better lesson.

So a few weeks later, my father visits me. I’m 3rd generation Japanese American, that means he 2nd, and so I fully expect him when I tell him this story to go off on her that “How dare this white woman asked you if you’re the yard man, you went to Stanford, you have an MBA, you work for Steve Jobs, you worked at Apple, you’ve written all these books”. So I thought he was just going to go off on her, and he says to me, “You know son, Japanese-American living on Union Street in San Francisco, the probability was that you were the yard man.” So get over. That was a very valuable lesson. Basically, he’s telling me take the high road, give people the benefit of the doubt, use humor, don’t get so easily offended. Man up basically. That was a very valuable lesson, and since that day, it’s been very hard to offend me.

Allison:  Oh, that is a great lesson, and what a trooper for your father to point out the reality of perception of it. So why is Guy? Why that title?

Guy:  Well, believe it or not, I have to tell you another story use a more my 26 minutes. So about 15 or so years ago, I had a Porsche 911 Cabriolet. So I’m driving in, in Menlo Park, and I pull up to a stop sign, or a stoplight, and I look over to my left, and there’s this car with 4 teenage girls, then they’re looking at me laughing, giggling, making eye contact and I thought Guy you truly have arrived. Even teenage girls know who you are. Because of your work at Apple, you’re writing you’re speaking your new hot, calm company, whatever. So the girl in front see says Roll down your window. So I roll down my window, she sticks her head out, and she says to me, are you Jackie Chan. So so now the lesson in that story, which is also in the book is that? It was a motivating factor for me because now one of my goals in life is that someday Jackie Chan is at a stoplight and some girl sticks her head out and ask Jackie Chan. Are you Guy Kawasaki? So I’m telling you this story, because the first title I had for this book was are you Jackie Chan. My publisher didn’t like that. So then the second title I had was, let’s call it Miso Soup for the Soul, like Chicken Soup for the Soul. Only Japanese style, and they didn’t like that either. So finally we came up with wise guy.

Allison:  That’s great. I think me so super. The soul actually is super sure that that cover to see if it sells more?

Guy:  Yes, that’s too late now.

Allison:  That’s great. What would you say is your most meaningful lesson that you’ve learned in the last decade?

Guy:  Oh, man, I stopped learning after a while. [phonetic 33:17] Yes, that’s true. That’s a complete reinvention. That’s true. So probably, I think, this is retroactive. It’s not like I planned it. But I took up surfing at the age of 61, and let’s just say taking up surfing at 61 is a little late, roughly 50 years too late, and I took it up because my daughter loves surfing. So I took up surfing, so I could do something with her, and now she’s so much better, she doesn’t serve with me but that’s a different discussion. But anyway, one of the things I learned is that learning is a lifelong pursuit. It doesn’t begin and end in formal school. So if I can learn to surf, not that I’m that great yet, but if I can learn to surf at 61 it basically is a message that you can learn your whole life. You don’t have to. It doesn’t end when you graduate college, and I think many people think that learning is a formal process of institutional education, and it’s just not true. Arguably, learning really starts when you leave educational institutions.

Allison:  I 100% agree with that statement. Especially in today’s [unintelligible 34:49] structure what we have here?

Guy:  What kind of structure? I’m sorry you broke up.

Allison:  The educational structure that we have [crosstalk 34:58]

Guy:  Well, some very interesting things are happening because of this pandemic that 10 years from now, if I’m still alive, I’m going to look back and say, Wow, that was the day that this major change happened. So, one major change is that the UC schools have for the next 2 years, they’re abandoning the SAT, and GPA, as the major ways of deciding on emissions. So this could be the death of the SAT and Standardized Testing for College Admissions, which I think is a good thing, and that’s going to be a very, very interesting outcome of the pandemic.

Allison:  Wow, that’s an interesting observation. I can’t imagine that. But you know what? If it doesn’t serve a purpose, it doesn’t serve a purpose. Right?

Guy:  Yes. I don’t think there’s any proof that scoring higher on the SAT indicates that you will do well in school, much less life.

Allison:  Yes, I do agree with that as well. So first of all, I just want to tell you that I really appreciate you have this infectious positive energy, and I can see that you bring that to all the work you’ve created. So that’s honorable, and I appreciate that. I know that, along with myself, many of us are kind of in this devastated, uncertain state of what’s going on here in the world. What advice would you give to people who want to make a positive difference out of this for themselves who was just staying at home and staying stuck?

Guy:  Yes, first of all, I don’t want you to think that I don’t have fears and doubts, because I just hide it better than most people, and anybody who tells you they don’t have any doubts and fears. You know, that’s what I call the Trump Syndrome.

So if you’re not scared, and fearful, you’re an idiot. If you’re not scared right now, about your life or your career, something’s wrong with you. I mean, literally, this is an IQ test on many levels, and in California, you’re just supposed to be in quarantine and only doing essential travel and all that kind of stuff, and I love to serve I serve every day if I could. I look at the surf cameras, and I see 50, 60 people surfing out there together, and you look at that, and you think like what is going through their brain? Well, some of them are closer than 6 feet to each other, which is really stupid, but do they think maybe as soon as the Coronavirus is expelled from one surfer, the ultraviolet and salt air kills it. So, what’s going through your brain.

A very good test for this is if you’re out whatever you’re doing; hiking, biking, surfing, hanging out, if someone was smoking, and you can smell the smoke. I think that’s a pretty good proxy for what if I could smell the smoke, then probably the airborne virus could also get to me. I mean, doesn’t that make sense?

So you can’t tell me that those people sitting out there, if one of those servers were smoking, I realize it’s kind of fictitious, because it’s hard to smoke when you’re surfing in the water. But if that person were smoking, you would smell it. So if you could smell it, you could get infected.

Anyway, this is where we’re going way down a path here. I think you just have to live every day.

One of the things I learned is that, “Things are never as good or as bad as they see”, and right now, probably things are not as bad as they seem. But there are times where you know the euphoria, that’s also you need to back that off to, probably not as good as it seems either. Well, one good default is just listen to your wife because usually your wife is right. That would be…

Allison:  You are such a smart man.

Guy: [unintelligible 39:39] your wife is right. That’s the lesson; in a pandemic, listen to your wife.

Allison:  That’s awesome. I love that. Such good advice. I have kind of gone through all of my initial questions you’ve shared more than I expected. Is there anything to ask that you would like to add?

Guy:  No, I think I’m good. If people like this interview, they should just subscribe to Remarkable People. I don’t even ask people to buy my book, just subscribe to Remarkable People. That’s where the bulk of my intellectual effort is going into right now my podcasts.

Allison:  Fantastic. So that would be your No. 1 request of the best way for people to connect with you to get all of your best work.

Guy:  Well, I don’t know if that’s a true statement. Because if you’re a startup entrepreneur, the best way to get guys knowledge is the [unintelligible 40:39] that book, if you are looking for something that’s more generalized, not just a tech entrepreneur, then is Wise Guy. But if you want the wisdom of the Remarkable People that I can get to that as my podcast, so it depends on what you want from me.

Allison:  If I want to follow you or suggest that they follow you on a specific channel, would it be linked up. I hear you are saying.

Guy:  Well, okay, that’s a complex question too. So LinkedIn is where I am most active. Having said that, people should understand that I am truly a liberal, and I have dedicated my LinkedIn and really all my social media to fighting Trump, and if someone watching this as a hardcore conservative Trumpists, do not follow me on social media. Do not do that.

Allison:  Appreciate that disclaimer. Thank you guys. I truly do appreciate the time with you here this morning, and I am super excited to be able to feature as bonus material, some of your Remarkable People episodes, so stay well, be well.

Guy:  Wash your hands.

Allison:  Yes, wash your hands, all those good things.

Guy:  Okay. Take care. Bye.

Allison:  Bye.

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